• frmorrison

If you are referring to the "starter pvp" kodohide set, that is Druid only. Anyway, the Crusder starter PvP helm and shoulders are useful pieces of gear, especially if you get an Insightful (worth 25 mp5 if spam casting) meta gem.

Anyway at low levels where you can spam Flash, that play style favors mp5 over crit (although both are good if you can get them).

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Palados

Also some factions have nice reputation rewards aside PvP items, for example ring/head enchant in Honor Hold. Plus gringing rep in dungeons will help you to gear up faster as well.

 

Silvanoshei

My guild is just starting into T5 content, but because of badge loot etc I'm reasonably well geared compared to the rest of my healing corps.

My question is this: When does it become practical to start playing around with a Spell Haste/HL build? As of right now, I don't generally have a problem with Mana Regen at all (although I realize that my Mp5 is a little below par), but our guild just had the luck of getting a new SPriest that has been added to our Healer group. Recently my healing has gone from about 80/20 FoL to more in the way of 70/30 HL(9), but as I said, I have no problems maintaining this for most fights.

Would it be worth stacking Crit items and gemming haste at this point? I realize that it's not "necessary", but I'm just looking for ways to improve the way I play. I generally heal MT by myself or with a Priest (depending on the fight). I have some Mp5 gear (and my T4 helm with Insightful) that I carry with me for LONG fights, so I'm not against having two sets of gear. With the gear that I have right now, I'm sure I'd be able to maintain +2k healing while stacking Haste gems in most places. What amount of Crit is needed for a Haste build?

Any advice would be welcome please

 

Acryon

It's probably not your choice, but there is definitely no need for a Shadow Priest for the healer group. Healers can maintain mana fine without a SP, but to max efficiency, SPs should be put in the caster groups. But if you happen to have another one with no caster group to go in, you're lucky so take advantage =)

But more to the point, I would advise just stacking +heal/mp5/crit until you start in Sunwell, and even then, some consider haste inclusion to be a matter of preference. At your gear level, most of your haste would come simply from gemming, and at the small amount of haste you could gain from gemming, it's not really worth it to gem that way. So basically, go for Teardrop Living Ruby, Luminous Noble Topaz, Royal Nightseye, and/or Gleaming Dawnstones. Whichever of those fit your preference, go for it. Hope I helped a little.

 

Stol

This thread looks a bit dead, and I'm not an active user of this forum. I couldn't be bothered to read through all the posts, but as I still see people running around with Int gems, and I guess no change have been made in the original topic, I just thought I'd comment on it anyway.

The way you price things using itempoints is silly. What you have to do is compare how good the gems actually are:

10 Int (+10% Int +35% healing) = 165 mana, 3,85 +healing (lets just make it 4 for the sake of it) and 3,025 (say 3 crit rating).

So, 165 mana, 4 healing and 3 crit rating is what you get in your gem. Now I'm sure most of you know that more mana isnt all that good although it does ofc help (like most things do). However, as I've always said, only reason to get an Int gem is if you want more mana, and I'm sticking to it.

 

Horn

Greetings fellow Paladins!

Long time reader first time poster so be gentle.

What i am wondering is what gems (yellow slots) to use for my gear. I have been reading alot and i use Rawl 15.1 as a guideline for gear and gems. With the settup i get up on Rawl it almost always sugests int gem.
Most of the other paladins in the guild goes for crit on their gear. Reading thees forums i see that some use spellhaste gems also. So my question is what gems should i go for in yellow sockets?

I have acces to everything up to SwP where we are having trys on first boss now.

Link to armory: The World of Warcraft Armory

 

Firecrest

As you start gearing up in Sunwell you will find that you can slowly start gemming for haste without any loss to your other stats.

When you get to around 150 mp5, 25% Holy Crit and 2300-2400 Heals you don't really NEED any more. As pallies, we do a lot of overhealing and you'll find that you get to a point where bettering these stats (specifically crit and healing) just equates to more overhealing. At this point, when you get a shiny new item that buffs these stats, you can usually use the gem socket you would have used on them for spell haste instead.

So basically you're at the point where you will start replacing your yellow crit gems with spell haste. Then, as you get more geared, you will replace many (if not nearly all) your gems with haste, regardless of color.

Of course, as stated many times before, spell haste is mostly a personal preference. Some people like running around with 2700 heals and 35% spell crit and there's nothing at all wrong with that. Really it just comes down to what you like and what works for you.

The only thing I will say is that you can't really go in-between. Gearing just a little bit of spell haste is nearly worthless. In my opinion, you have to commit yourself to going full out or not at all.


Edit: Another important deciding factor in when to gear spell haste will be your mana pool's ability to keep up. If you are lucky enough to regularly get an spriest, there's almost no reason not to go all out with your spell haste. Otherwise, you'll want to pay careful attention to your mana pool as you learn the fights. If you're regularly ending them with mana to spare, it's a safe bet that you can afford the haste.

 

levk

For rawr stretch fight to 6 minutes, it's under options, but yeah it'll still strongly favor intellect in yellow slots. With haste you wanna pick a number for haste and see if you can shoot for that without gemming gear you're aiming to replace soon. By picking a number I mean number of haste that reduces your holy light cast time in .1 second increments.

 

• frmorrison

I just ignored Rawr recommendations for Int gems, since they are worse than haste or crit. Otherwise it does fair estimations of what is best, assuming you entered all your buffs and potion usage.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

◊ etrnl

I am pushing about a 130 haste in my current gear state, 28% crit, and like 80mp5 (all unbuffed) and I haven't even seen past Gutogg in BT. What can I expect, in terms of haste, as I move further into BT? Like what are some common haste stats for the BT/SWP paladins?

 

Bygbyron3

I used to socket intellect (especially luminous pyrestones), until I looked at the numbers which was around the time my guild had Brutallus on farm.

But here is what I concluded;

10 intellect (assuming 5/5 Divine Intellect) gives = 3.85 healing, 0.14% crit, and 165 mana (all slightly higher with kings)

The value of a player's mana pool diminishes as the length of an encounter increases. And I found that any fight over 206 seconds mp5 has an advantage over intellect gem value point for point for regen. Given that @ 3 minutes and 26 seconds 4mp5 will have returned 165 mana.

So for an encounter with a length of a little over 3 minutes, a 10 intellect gem gives; 17.5% the effect of a teardrop spinel, 30% the effect of a gleaming lionseye, and an equal effect of a lustrous sapphire.

Effectiveness of 10 intellect gems compared to other gems
@ 4 minutes: 17.5% of a +22 healing, 30% of a +10 crit, and 86% of a +4mp5
@ 5 minutes: 17.5% of a +22 healing, 30% of a +10 crit, and 69% of a +4mp5
@ 6 minutes: 17.5% of a +22 healing, 30% of a +10 crit, and 57% of a +4mp5
@ 7 minutes: 17.5% of a +22 healing, 30% of a +10 crit, and 49% of a +4mp5

So what I concluded was that even with paladin's synergy with stats and talents from intellect, we still gain more benefit from raw +healing, +spell crit, and +mp5 more than intellect on any fight longer than about 5 to 6 minutes.

However from my experience in Sunwell, haste becomes the most beneficial stat due to the length of fights, return of mana from spiritual attunement, raid compositions for minimal healers, and the extremely high demand for HPS (healing per second) to counteract the relatively insane DTPS (damage taken per second) of the raid and tanks.

IDK if I'm missing something, doing bad math, or RAWR just over values intellect by a long shot (I've tested every setting in the program). But I concluded a while back that +intellect was not the best way to enchant, gem, and itemize, especially with the introduction of haste gems and Sunwell in 2.4.

Edit: My initial calculation of intellect and spell critical rating was off. Also note that kings would bump the effectiveness of intellect up a bit, which a paladin will almost always have in a raid environment.

 

Endoscient

Yep it favors haste pretty low, since it doesn't give any value to having your heals arrive quicker. Which their really is no good objective way to evaluate without running a lot of simulations.

It favors INT pretty high to start off, but make sure you have all the buffs and everything set properly. Since Int doesn't scale nearly as well as other stats, but it isn't as bad of a stat as most people think, especially for shorter fights. The main problem with it is that its value does vary significantly with fight length, so for those marathon 10min+ fights when you really need the mana it won't do any where near as well.

It also assumes you use all of your mana and how much healing you do over the whole fight. It doesn't give any value to burst hps currently.

I actually quit WoW around 2.5 months ago so I have not updated the module since then. But, I am not as busy now and I am going to update/finish Healadin and Tankadin modules. So if their are any bugs or features missing let me know

 

Endoscient

I went to dig into this to find out more if something is being calculate wrong, but I don't think it is. First off I don't know why you didn't calculate it with BoK since you will have that almost all of the time. Secondly, you got very wrong value for crit, it would give 11% of 1% chance to crit, but a +10 crit gem only gives you .43% to crit.

Here are the numbers I got with Kings & Divine Intellect, for a 6 minute fight.

Gem * DI * BoK = Effective Int
10 int * 1.1 * 1.1 = 12.1

+22 Healing Gem
12.1 * 0.35 = 4.235
4.235 / 22 = 19.25%

+10 Crit Gem
Int Gem: 12.1 / 80 = 0.151%
Crit Gem: 10 / 22.08 = 0.453%
0.151% / 0.453% = 33.33%

+4mp5 Gem
Int Gem: 12.1 * 15 = 181.5 mana
Mp5 Gem: 4 * 6 * 12 = 288 mana
181.5 / 288 = 63%

Now this adds up to to 115% if all the gems were equal themselves, so it is very easy to see how int can be the highest of them all. Regretfully for int though in most circumstances +Healing is the best of the three gems, which it has the least of. But, lets look at the values for the three other gems in Rawr, and see if them multiplied by their percents is the equal to what it values int at.

The values are from loading Bygbyron3 from Armory, and setting buffs/options to a Brutallus type fight with a resto shaman but no shadow priest. Which on that note reminds me that Mana Tide isn't in implemented.

+22 Healing = 9.07 * 19.25% = 1.75
+10 Crit = 8.02 * 33.33% = 2.67
+4mp5 = 6.51 * 63% = 4.10

Total: 8.52
Value in Rawr: 8.38

So you can see that Int is valued correctly, and in shorter fights it is a good stat. Although it is slightly less in Rawr, but that is due to the increasing returns of some stats.

 

Frimlin

Maybe I am just blind, but I can't see a list of recommended raid consumables for Healadins in the initial posts. I'm the Healing Officer for my guild, and I'd like to post up a list of flasks, elixirs, food, oils...etc that are required for Healadins. I'd post up what I use, but I'm a squishy Priest so I have no clue what the most epic Healadins currently consider the best consumables. We're in late stage BT and MH. If you can give me a link or a list, that'd be greatly appreciated.

 

Bygbyron3

These are the only consumables I ever use as holy, given in order of priority. Some fights call for a school of magic protection potions so potions can vary.

Flasks: [Flask of Mighty Restoration] > [Flask of Distilled Wisdom]

Elixirs
Guardian: [Elixir of Major Mageblood] > [Elixir of Draenic Wisdom]
Battle: [Adept's Elixir] > [Elixir of Healing Power]

Oils: [Brilliant Mana Oil] > [Blessed Weapon Coating] > [Superior Mana Oil]

Food: [Blackened Sporefish] > [Golden Fish Sticks] or [Skullfish Soup]

Potions: [Super Mana Potion] w/ [Redeemer's Alchemist Stone]

 

Original Look

Having recently dinged 70 on a paladin myself, and decided to spec holy, this thread has been a great help to me. Thanks a lot to everyone who has posted information here, I'm sure I'm not the only person who it has helped.

I do however have one question though, which I have not seen answered anywhere I have looked. It is not related to raiding, or even healing at all, but is quite a vital part of day-to-day holy paladin life.

I am currently finding doing any sort of quests quite grinding. Of course I never expected a holy paladin to be a DPS monster, but I am looking in to ways of making it more bearable. Would it be beneficial to swap out my healing weapon and shield for a two hander to increase DPS, or would it in fact decrease my DPS? Are there any other tips people might have as to increasing standard questing ability as holy?

 

Fallens

I keep my holy gear on and aoe grind quests/dailies. With over 2400, healing near 1k spell dmg it's such an easy breeze. Keep ret aura up and rotate it with conc when you need to heal. Use your cd's as much as possible! Going 2h is slow and not as enjoyable as killing about 10 mobs at once and completing a quest in one pull. If you don't have the gear to hold many mobs, try 2-5 on you at a tine and remember to LoS casters. Always keep casters in consecration in range for an easy hammer. I usually have one mob with wisdom up on him and it helps a bunch. Hope this helps "Original Look."

 

• frmorrison

The other buffs are personal preference, but for the Flask one is a better than the other.

Distilled Wisdom gives 65 int, which gives 78 int buffed. Which is nearly 1% crit (22 crit rating) and 27 healing, not to mention 1170 mana. 25 mp5 is 1500 mana over 5 minutes.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Acryon

Yeah I believe that it's been discussed and more or less decided that for an average 5-6 minute fight, Distilled Wisdom is better for a Holy Paladin than Mighty Resto.

 

Amera

You honestly don't need to over-math the flasks and consumables. If you aren't running out of mana, you should be using a Distilled Wisdom because it increases your output, while Resto does not. Once you have BT gear and beyond you really shouldn't ever be running out of mana early unless you are healing incorrectly, assigned incorrectly (being expected to drop HL spam but not having an spriest), not using potions correctly, or something similar. If you are using elixirs, the same thing goes for Draenic Wisdom versus Mageblood and Fishsticks versus Sporefish - one increases your output, one does not.

 

Alunra

I've started to become a heavy Holy PvP pally. I was wondering 2 things, one, are there any good site out there for pally macros & two, does anyone know how to select a random friendly target in range to place Blessing of Sacrifice on?

Plus any links to or advice for arena holy pally...?

 

Borona

The command /targetfriend cycles through friendly targets.

So this should work:

For more macros you should visit the Useful macros for paladins - WoWWiki page. There are quite a lot of macro examples.
To find some PvP advice you could dig through this thread The Paladin PvP Thread or search on the Arena Junkies - World of Warcraft PvP Strategy and Discussion site.

 

Acryon

Macros - Arena Junkies
Go to that site it has quite a bit of helpful info and macros.

edit: I need to read better. Guy above me already posted this link ><

 

Alunra

Does anyone know how to check if Divine Favor is on CD and if not cast it? I know how to cast it but I can not find on any of the macro sites a way to check if an ability is on CD.

 

levk

I don't think you can do that in a macro. Just do /cast Divine Favor. If you're annoyed at the error messages, there's a way to suppress that in a macro.