I'd expect something like this to become the new "cookie-cutter" build really: [url=http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZVhtIx0dMgqtVbx
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft[/url]
I'd take out the point in kings and one point out of imp judgement and move those into pursuit of justice. A holy paladin probably has kings, and unless I've completely misconstrued an earlier post, two points in imp judgement are unnecessary.
I'd take out the point in kings and one point out of imp judgement and move those into pursuit of justice. A holy paladin probably has kings, and unless I've completely misconstrued an earlier post, two points in imp judgement are unnecessary.
You'd be better off removing both points from Imp. Judgement in that case, PoJ is becoming a 3 point talent in the next patch.
I also like having Kings available from myself from a 10-man perspective; it's not unlikely you'll be the only Paladin in a 10-man, in which case it's nice to be able to cast Kings.
You'd be better off removing both points from Imp. Judgement in that case, PoJ is becoming a 3 point talent in the next patch.
I also like having Kings available from myself from a 10-man perspective; it's not unlikely you'll be the only Paladin in a 10-man, in which case it's nice to be able to cast Kings.
That and if, for whatever reason, I was in a raid where the other pallies had also skipped kings, then I think my guild/raid leaders would castrate me( given that it's a prot talent...). Which is a plenty good reason for me to hang on to it .
If you can't be certain that someone will have kings, it's worth it. I like the idea of having a mitigation focused paladin that can have at least 2/3 of pursuit of justice as well as spell warding without sacrificing too much.
IIRC: Two points of improved judgement will lead to cycle disruptions of holy shield, judgements, and consecrate. One point in imp judgement won't have cycle corruptions, so I'd like to leave that talent point in there.
In the end it won't make too large of a difference so long as you have the 49 in protection.
Here are stats in order of contribution from fastest to slowest to bringing you toward making you uncrushable, posted with each stats equivalence to 1% uncrushability.
7.9 Block Rating = 1% Block
15 Defense Rating = 6.25 Defense Skill = 0.25% Miss, 0.25% Dodge, 0.25% Parry, 0.25% Block (Note: Defense Skill only counts if it's a whole number, so an actual 6.25 defense skill is impossible)
18.9 Dodge Rating = 1% Dodge
22.4 Parry Rating = 1% Parry
22.7 Agility = 1% Dodge (This is with Blessing of Kings, without it you need 25 Agility instead)
It might be useful to rearrange these values in terms of block rating:
It might also be helpful to emphasize that paladins, unlike warriors, are better off stacking defense over dodge for quite awhile, though dodge becomes better than defense for additional avoidance after uncrushability is reached.
That's a fairly good idea, though I think it'd be better to refer to as "Crush Avoidance Rating" or "Crush Avoidance Equivalence"; there's some practical differences to each of the stats for other purposes, so referring to it as equivalence to block rating is slightly misleading.
With 2.3 coming next week, how about a "Zul Aman" & Protection Paladin Section?
I'm sure that there are lots of Tips and Tricks out there for pulling a group through within 20 min for each boss (this DOES sound very much like Paladins will be very helpful in this Instance, because speed tanking with very fast high aggro is what we are can do better than the other two tanks.
Yeah, I was mistaken on that. What I really meant was that working from Chicken's cookie-cutter build (which was premised on not taking Reckoning) you could only drop to 2/5 Anticipation and still have 25 points to get to Tier 6.
My comrades are my weapons, and I am their shield.
It was mentioned that the new expertise talent will not be so bad for threat generation to get instead of reckoning.
Has anyone that's played around in the test servers happen to know how this impacts solo/farming/aoe grinding ?
I am at the point where i will be able to tank karazhan soon, but still have plenty of solo/farming to do as well, and im concerned about dropping reckoning.
Yeah, I was mistaken on that. What I really meant was that working from Chicken's cookie-cutter build (which was premised on not taking Reckoning) you could only drop to 2/5 Anticipation and still have 25 points to get to Tier 6.
Ah, gotcha. Yeah, you can either do reckoning or do spell warding and BoS and anticipation. Or I guess you could do something like stoicism, but that's really not optimal.
It was mentioned that the new expertise talent will not be so bad for threat generation to get instead of reckoning.
Against normal mobs it should increase threat by about 2.5%. Not a lot, but some. It actually works really well with reckoning, as more swings will hit. If you're worried about dropping reckoning I'd probably drop 1hws instead and keep reckoning, because the 10% stamina boost and the hit probability increase is just too much to ignore.
Against normal mobs it should increase threat by about 2.5%. Not a lot, but some. It actually works really well with reckoning, as more swings will hit. If you're worried about dropping reckoning I'd probably drop 1hws instead and keep reckoning, because the 10% stamina boost and the hit probability increase is just too much to ignore.
That's the thing...there are just too many good talents...i'm having a hard time figuring out how to get the essential tanking ones, while still being able to solo/grind as needed.
Well, neither reckoning or 1hws are essential for tanking. Combat Expertise is essential for tanking. 1hws is better than reckoning for tanking, but not so amazingly so that you'll miss it desperately. However, reckoning is not that much better than 1hws when grinding; while you miss the extra swings and the extra triggers from SoL/SoW, you'll gain a ton of damage from holy shield, retribution aura and especially consecrate with 1hws.
Between that and reckoning's increased chance of killing you with a parry gibfest, I think it's the one to be dropped. But it's a very tough thing to drop.
Ah, gotcha. Yeah, you can either do reckoning or do spell warding and BoS and anticipation. Or I guess you could do something like stoicism, but that's really not optimal.
You really only need to drop Anticipation for Reckoning actually; it's just not immediately obvious when speccing from the spec I linked. For example: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
It will force you into taking kings though, not that that's necessarily a bad thing. If you prefer you can just put the single point in Anticipation instead.
Our chance of parry gibfest also isn't that bad (Reckoning sounds worse than it is; double attacks for a while still doesn't compare to basically trying to use an instant parryable attack every 1.5 seconds in addition to auto-attacks), though it is the case next patch that it's likely that while Warriors and Druids have some expertise, it's harder to come by in our gear unless you pick up some special pieces for it (Generally speaking our itemization comes with spell damage where theirs would give expertise, in the case of the pieces that give expertise).
You really only need to drop Anticipation for Reckoning actually; it's just not immediately obvious when speccing from the spec I linked. For example: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
I think his point (and mine) was that you can either have reckoning or you can have anticipation. If you don't do either anticipation or reckoning you won't have enough points to go into the tree any further. You need at least 2 points in one or the other.
I still think that the easy fix for expertise for paladins is the heroic badge bracers, which are very comparable to anything in kara, fairly cheap, and a good upgrade all around.
Well, neither reckoning or 1hws are essential for tanking. Combat Expertise is essential for tanking. 1hws is better than reckoning for tanking, but not so amazingly so that you'll miss it desperately. However, reckoning is not that much better than 1hws when grinding; while you miss the extra swings and the extra triggers from SoL/SoW, you'll gain a ton of damage from holy shield, retribution aura and especially consecrate with 1hws.
Between that and reckoning's increased chance of killing you with a parry gibfest, I think it's the one to be dropped. But it's a very tough thing to drop.
Well, in terms of tanking I agree with you, but when it comes to solo/grinding I will say that Reckoning is far and away more important than 1hws. Light/wisdom procs determine your threshold for surviving indefinitely. I'll certainly be speccing into it when WotLK comes out, or if I go attempt to solo farm crazy shit.
Originally Posted by kalbear
I still think that the easy fix for expertise for paladins is the heroic badge bracers, which are very comparable to anything in kara, fairly cheap, and a good upgrade all around.
Unfortunately they're sorely lacking uncrushability stats, which someone at Kara level would be concerned with.
Heya, was just hoping you guys could give me some advice on how you tank the murlocs at tidewalker.
I've done it as holy (in my previous guild) like this:
-tank gear on
-after quake, I'd heal up the raid (other healers only heal me and MT at this time) with RF to get aggro
-once murlocs came, I'd continue healing, having a designated healer on me to keep me up, while warlocks seeded the murlocs (as many as they can)
-mages would cast flamestrike simultaneously, making the seeds go off - at this point I'd loose aggro and the murlocs would be kited by the warlocks / mages till death (not long)
Now I'm in a new guild and am prot, the second in the tank lineup. I plan to do the same to get aggro (heal the raid after the quake), then consecrate and holy shield to keep them on me, after a while the locks and mages would aoe (hopefully with me having enough aggro to keep them on me).
Any suggestions / hints?
Oh and is it possible to macro divine shield so you use it and cancle it with 1 macro? Tried but couldn't get it right (could be very usefull if I get graved).
I usually tank the murlocs on the south side of morogrim while a warrior picks them up north. We have a shadowpriest with VE on moro that gets the murlocs aggrod onto him. This makes it easier to lay down traps and conc to pick them up. It's basicly me standing just behind a hunter trap laying down conc and I got 2 mages and a warlock usually to kill them. No real problems with aggro, I don't heal up anything before they come at all. Warrior tries to do the same on the north side but he's got a harder time ofcourse. We don't make 1 big camp because it's harder to get all the mobs and aggro on all of them if either south or north murlocs join in later. But hunter frost traps and frost nova from mages are your friend to pick up a pack of murlocs. I usually got 1 or 2 going for a warlock/mage and can easily taunt them off. My aoe dps never gets killed by murlocs since I tank them.
You really only need to drop Anticipation for Reckoning actually; it's just not immediately obvious when speccing from the spec I linked. For example: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
It will force you into taking kings though, not that that's necessarily a bad thing. If you prefer you can just put the single point in Anticipation instead.
Our chance of parry gibfest also isn't that bad (Reckoning sounds worse than it is; double attacks for a while still doesn't compare to basically trying to use an instant parryable attack every 1.5 seconds in addition to auto-attacks), though it is the case next patch that it's likely that while Warriors and Druids have some expertise, it's harder to come by in our gear unless you pick up some special pieces for it (Generally speaking our itemization comes with spell damage where theirs would give expertise, in the case of the pieces that give expertise).
Would dropping anticipation for reckoning something that would be recommended for someone trying to hit uncrushability to get into karazhan?
Would dropping anticipation for reckoning something that would be recommended for someone trying to hit uncrushability to get into karazhan?
Not really, getting uncrushable and keeping a decent amount of stamina at start is not an easy task (or I dont remember it to be anyway). The stamina part will be easier in 2.3 though.
Thing is, in Kara there are quite a few bosses where those extra parries can make alot of difference when you'r learning it. Maiden and Prince are good examples of this. (and who knows, maybe even nightbane with the 2.3 fear changes)
Not really, getting uncrushable and keeping a decent amount of stamina at start is not an easy task (or I dont remember it to be anyway). The stamina part will be easier in 2.3 though.
Thing is, in Kara there are quite a few bosses where those extra parries can make alot of difference when you'r learning it. Maiden and Prince are good examples of this. (and who knows, maybe even nightbane with the 2.3 fear changes)
Yeah, i did not think so. I guess i just have to face the fact that for a while, i will have to drop Reckoning. At the point where uncrushability is less of a concern, i will probably respec back to reckoning.
At what point progression wise would it actually be viable to drop some/all points in anticipation? Right now I'm not much higher than the uncrittable cap (497 according to my armory), and it seems like, with most of my upgrade options being from za, where defense in general is low (but block rating/value galore), removing anything from anticipation is not an option. Are people in this position usually using a [Scarab of Displacement] or other high defense trinket instead of 2 stam trinkets?
I'm using two stam trinkets myself, but as I'll freely admit I have an excellent set of rings/necklace/shield which I'm certain not all of us will have as easy access too (Tier 5 tank rings, Kael'thas tank necklace and Kaz'rogal shield are what I'm referring to here, the rest of my gear is tier 4/karazhan, with the exception of my boots which are from Shade of Akama instead; I'm including this because at the moment of this post the armory shows me in my healing gear instead). If I switch out my [Pepe's Shroud of Pacification] for my [Phoenix-Wing Cloak] I'm on 520 defense in total, so I can easily afford dropping Anticipation myself.
I'd only ever recommend dropping Anticipation if you really do not feel you need it; it's even not a bad avoidance talent if you don't feel you need any other talent. And simply put, it's 3.2% less chance to be crushed, and also covers 0.8% of your crit immunity, both of which you'll likely need if you're not in tier 5+ raid gear.
Personally, I do not feel at ANY given point is it wise to drop anticipation. It is worth 3.2% crush avoidance and counts towards the anti-crit cap, something that can actually be tough with T5/ZA level gear when you are gearing for max stamina.
If you are speccing for an MT role, your soloing is crappy either way. Don't gimp your raid for what you do off-time. Its time for reckoning to be dropped.
Ninja Edit: Wow, in the time I went to the bathroom and came back to post my reply, it was already outdated.
Oh and is it possible to macro divine shield so you use it and cancle it with 1 macro? Tried but couldn't get it right (could be very usefull if I get graved).
Not with one button press, no. The best macro I've found does DS if you don't have it up and cancels it if you do, and you can spam it. But that's about it.
11/07/07, 4:26 PM
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