Supposedly, they're reducing the bounce range in an upcoming patch...which will be highly welcome. I do NOT need to pull additional packs in a tight area.

I tested Hand of Salvation with a friend yesterday. It apparently works exactly like the Mage Invisibility buff prior to actually becoming invisible. It reduces their threat by a percentage as intended, if the player receiving the buff does nothing. If they take damage or take an action, the threat drop ends, although the buff remains.

I.E, casting it on someone doing a DPS rotation, you will be lucky to even get that first 2% drop. This is likely not intended, and probably just a cut-and-paste of code from the invisibility spell without enough changes.

This has been the most annoying thing while tanking. I have resorted to body pulls when I'm not sure if shield is going to end up aggroing 1 or 2 extra groups. It's been happening often. Reducing the bounce range will make me a happy panda.

Haha, I've had the exact opposite sentiment actually. With the nerfs, all I've wanted to do is grab as many mobs as I can get a hold of, and the shield's been awesome for doing that. But I'd imagine that when I get back to challenging content in the expansion I'll be glad to have a non-mega-bouncy shield.

I agree with loving to masspull now, but the shield does seem over-zealous in tight spaces. Its almost enough to make me glyph for solo target shield.... almost.

I suspect it was intentionally made that way so we would be tempted to waste a slot.

Are you sure? I've used it several times and it's always seemed to work as advertised.

I also think it's working as it says it is. I ran a few heroics yesterday to finish out my Outland Dungeon achievements and I pulled off the tank a few times. I used HoS on myselfwhile still going full bore DPS and watched my threat drop and the tank pull it back exactly where expected.

It's definitely working as intended. I used it last night for the first time on M'uru. Worked like a charm

Re: Hand of Salvation testing

are you:
1. Accounting for increased tank threat lowering your threat percentage?

and

2. Verifying that it's not just your threat addon telling you it decreases without it actually decreasing?

Yes and yes. This wasn't scientific by any means, but a few points.

First, Omen is accurate now. It gets threat info directly from the server without any reverse engineering, because the client is now provided with that info.

Second, as I mentioned I continued going full bore. I was able to pull ahead of my tank, use HoS after I pulled, watch my threat decrease, and watch the tank regain threat at 110% of my own threat.

Do we have any Post 3.0 Muru Void Sentinal tanking pallys on here? Are you wearing your normal tanking gear or are you throwing on some SR gear? How much? We made our first attempts on Muru last night and my healers were having to spam on me pretty hard. I was also tanking all of the spawns.

What kind of healers are you using? Are they positioned anywhere special? There were a couple of attempts where I just plain had to run out of range of my healers to pick up the adds. Thoughts, suggestions?

I can verify this as well. Hand of Salv works just like the tooltip says (not you are likely dpsing with the buff up, so you still gain threat with the buff up, so you get less than 20% less threat).


I haven't tried having two Hand of Salv buffs at the same time I bet they don't stack, however you should be able to cast one after the other.

At times I tanked both the sentinels and the adds before the 3.0 patch. I just used my full tanking gear to maximise threat and minimise the damage from the sentinel as thats what really hurt. All it required was 2 priests on me full time and we had no significant issues. All you need is a large enough health pool to cope with the spikes when they occur (towards the end we didnt even use a grounding totem and so I ate 10k shadow bolts and 8-10k melee swings on top of adds damage).

Post 3.0 its pretty much the same but much more trivial in that it lasts 1/4th the time. Tanking in general is a lot more trivial now, last week our MT grabbed Entropius and built up threat, at 80% he DC'd and logged back in at 20% and still had threat and hadn't died.

I've tanked M'uru Void Spawns post patch. I used my SR cape and neck from BT.
I'm not sure I need either and likely won't use them. The following is why.

When the void spawn pops I use Holy Wrath. AOE damage and "STUN". They stay in place I consecrate. I have our Mages and Warlocks AOE the adds and within 3-4secs of popping they're all dead. I take damage for maybe 2 secs. Also Warlocks have a AOE move that stuns adds. (sorry don't remember the name atm).

So I really don't think SR is necessary as long as you're killing the adds immediately. Tonight I'm wearing no SR so I can pick up loose adds and Entropius if we have a bad transition.

Does anyone have a bead on what kind of DPS we can turn out at 80 in raids when main tanking, when doing DPS during a fight once our assigned mob is dead (or between spawns, etc)?

It may not be the largest concern, with our TPS artificially inflated thanks to the extra multiplier built into RF, combined with a promised ability to swap to another spec at will. However, the dual spec issue won't solve it completely, as some prot paladins are bound to pick holy as their second spec, but won't be needed to heal on every fight they aren't tanking, necessarily.

I believe Blizzard gave up a target for tank spec'd classes in terms of their DPS output relative to a pure DPS spec'd toon, but I cannot find the post, nor do I have a reference to what percentage of a DPS spec'd toon we are doing in various situations at 80.

I have a feeling any concern would be lost in the sea of Retribution complaints right now, but it is something to keep in mind and hope that Blizzard fixes (if even needed) later, for all tanking classes, not just ours.

I did some calculations using full dps plate with a prot spec and it looked like prot paladins would be maintaining 80% of a ret paladin's damage. It isn't blowing anyone's mind, but if you are asked to dps and you have good dps gear a prot paladin can deliver.

You never needed SR as a Pala Tank for Muru.

I tanked the Sentinels + Void Spawns before and after patch with my usual Sunwell Tank gear. There were no risks before the patch as long as your healers were spamming you and roughly 23k hp and now it is really a joke, on our first kill post patch a druid tank missed a couple of adds from the first wave and they happened to get aggrod by me while I was tanking a Sentinel.
So the entire fight I was tanking 2 Melee Adds from the side, a Sentinel and the Spawns without any problem.

Since they dont have Sunwell Radiance anymore there is really little damage on me compared to before when there was constanty a lot of damage on me but very much healable by a Paladin and Priest. The only times it was possible to die used to be when the Sentinel made a big melee hit, grounding totem missed the Void Blast for whatever reason (sometime one of the Blood Elf adds casted a Fireball in the Totem before) and an AOE Tick at the same time doing up to 28k spike dmg in a matter of maybe 1 second.

Threat also was never a problem, at times i forgot to buff myself Rigtheous Fury and it still worked out to some degree usually, you just had to make sure that Consecration is up at ALL times because not having it the second that the Sentinel dies will make the Spawns run off immediately. Ofc this is not even a problem now since you can use Holy Wrath instant as well.

Really it's piece of cake, first kill post patch I tanked so bad with the new skills, forgot to judge the new Seal a bunch of times I think, totally forgot about instant Holy Wrath and such but it didn't matter.

Personally, I would continue to use my medallion and cape, although the Chromatic Wonder flask can go out the door. I know that pre-patch, the only reason I would ever die tanking the Sentinels + Spawns is when my Shaman fell asleep on the Grounding Totems, and I took a large Void Blast and melee hit combo. Seeing as the Blast is resistible, the SR can help avoid the damage that's most likely to kill you.

That being said, I don't think it's going to make a huge difference in your strategy any more. I mean sure, it'll probably help. But you can reliably do the entire zone with 7-8 healers for every encounter now that you don't have to drop to 5-6 for Brutallus and M'uru, so you can compensate for the spikes with more HoT's and more direct heals. That and you really only have to tank one, maybe two Sentinels before Entropius.

They never did. They are doing significantly lower physical damage, though, which is probably why you're taking less damage.

Hey Redcape, do you happen to have a spreadsheet or something modified for prot DPS? I have tried it a bit in the beta, however I've found my main issue to be running out of mana super fast without anything like JotW and not getting mana from SA or BoSanc.

I also wonder how much better off you are wearing DPS plate versus tank gear stacked with block value (to give Shield of Righteousness extra punch).

DPS plate has lots of strength, which is a much superior stat than pure block value. If Item level - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft is right, 1 itemization point translates into either ~1,54 Block Value or 1 Strength (1,15 with Divine Strength), which increases block value by 0,575 and AP by 2,3.

Nothing in the Muru fight had Sunwell Radiance before.