Paladin has a bigger health pool and the ability to drop the stack at will once every 4 minutes.

Warlock has a higher threat threshold, easier time reaching FR cap, and 20% of the damage is transfered to the pet.

Pick.

I did it every time for my guild's leo kills, being the FR tank from day one. I also learned it well before the newer (not newest) round of badge gear and combat expertise, so i can only imagine it's easier now. I still think a lock's a better choice, but a paladin certainly works (and it's quite easy to melee with a paladin tank, just make sure the paladin and the melee are at max range).

I finally got around to putting together a crude (ODF) spreadsheet to estimate paladin threat generation in Wrath. It's currently available on Free file hosting by Savefile.com, which is a site I'm not very familiar with; if people have trouble accessing the file, I'll move it.

The math could stand to be reviewed. I intentionally skipped a few features in the beta that look like bugs (e.g. shield spec not affecting block value from strength). Most numbers come from Cathela's first post in the Wotlk paladin thread, and I initialized the paladin's stats from the numbers Thorgred extrapolated from the Daunting Legguards. Currently only covers one target.

There are a few things that stand out:

• Seal of Righteousness significantly outperforms Seal of Vengeance. This seems to be due to three factors: it scales better with Hammer of the Righteous, parry, haste, and Reckoning, it scales with Divine Strength and SoV doesn't, and the sample paladin has more than 5 times as much attack power as spell power.
• Blizzard mentioned the threat from Blessing of Salvation would get shoved into tank threat generation. It looks like for paladins, that's in Shield of Righteousness. It's by far the largest percentage of any ability to total threat generated on a single target.
• Shield of Righteousness, Consecration, and Judgement are the highest threat per GCD moves against a single target. They're close enough that the order will vary with stats and by which judgement is used.

The relatively weak showing of SoV is a bit curious. Right now, it looks like it's primarily a soloing seal for holy builds. I'm not sure what the best way to fix it might be. One option would be a talent out of reach of ret that allows faster judgements, since the judgement is its strongest feature.

This statement confuses me. SoV should scale somewhat with Attack Power, which is affected by Divine Strength since most of our AP appears to be coming from STR.

What equation did you use for SoV? I can't download the spreadsheet to see.

The most recent equation I had seen was

DMG_per_tick = V*(0.07*AP + 0.034*SP) ==> 0.35*AP + 0.17*SP at a 5 stack.

Has that changed?

The equations I have are .07 * ap + .17 * sp for the DoT and 0 * ap + .012 * ap for the per-hit damage (both with a full stack), from Cathela's post in the other thread. I hope I was talking about the per-hit damage there but I might have mixed myself up. In either case, I misspoke--the DoT and the Judgement both benefit from extra strength, but the damage from extra hits with a full stack does not.

If you're right about the AP coefficient scaling with the stack size, SoV overtakes SoR handily, at least when ignoring setup time and chance to fall off as the spreadsheet does.

Yes, in beta, a full stack DoT does have (.07*Stacks) AP coefficient. It is unknown if this is intended or not, as in an earlier iteration of the beta, the DoT was .07 regardless of stack size.

Well later on in that thread it was reported to have been changed to 7% per stack up to 35% for a full stack:
http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t28560-p...48/#post835458

I haven't read of it being reverted back to 7% flat yet. I wonder if Cathela didn't update the OP? I think it is also listed on the ingame tooltips as 7% per stack now (see the wowhead site).

EDIT: Bellator beat me to it

Yes, in any fight where the tank doesn't lose chances to hit, the chance of SoV falling off is, as far as I can tell, the same as the chance the paladin will miss every melee and HotR attack for 15 seconds straight, which should be pretty low. That's one reason I didn't bother trying to model it.

The other reason is that attempting to generalize all possible fights where the paladin will miss opportunities to attack (Gruul, say) is a lost cause.

To factor in the average time to build up the stack, I'd need an estimated fight length, which seems like an unnecessary complication at this level of abstraction. The build up time doesn't really apply to tank-switching fights like Netherspite or Nalorakk or to multi-target fights where the paladin's mob isn't hit first anyway, where you can get it for free.

Ok I am not trying to derail this thread. It seemed the most appropriate place to talk about pal tanking questions. I tried to post my own thread but I guess them dam elitists make board noobs wait. Anyways I was saving for an epic mount, but in reality I don’t care about having one. I will use that money to buy epic gems for my current sets. Most likely the guild alliance folks I run with wont get much past tier4 and maybe some tier 5 content before wrath and im looking to maximize my character in the content I will be in.

Gem advice. I currently have the justicar set Justicar Armor - Item Set - World of Warcraft (minus the helm) and the tankatronic goggles [Tankatronic Goggles]. I have mitigation pieces that I use but they decrease my spell damage and thus my threat. Those pieces are the iron gauntlets of the maiden [Iron Gauntlets of the Maiden], pauldrons of stone resolve [Pauldrons of Stone Resolve], wrynn dynasty greaves [Wrynn Dynasty Greaves], and can use the sunward crest [Sunward Crest] or the dragonheart flameshieldhttp://www.wowhead.com/?item=28611. Here is my current armory in my tanking set The World of Warcraft Armory, and my imba Be Imba! - the online Character Auditor for World of Warcraft.

What I am looking for is advice on gemming my justicar set or any of the mitigation pieces to keep my spell damage at the highest possible amount. I normally use the tank pal program that shows me how uncrushable I am, but using epic quality gems I do not want to take the risk on buying/cutting more than I need.

Using the justicar and/or any of the mitigation pieces what are the mins needed for uncrushability keeping spell damage at its highest? If anyone can help me it would be appreciated.

on a side not i have been really unlucky on rolls for the amani punisher [Amani Punisher], and the bloodmaw magus blade [Bloodmaw Magus-Blade] either would help also, i know.

You want someone to tell you all the possible ways you can gem all those pieces of gear, in all possible combinations, while remaining uncrushable and maximizing spelldamage? Um, no. No one here is working with any more information than you are; you're just being lazy.

You would be way better served to spend badges on something like [Inscribed Legplates of the Aldor] rather than spending the badges on putting epic gems in [Wrynn Dynasty Greaves]. Also, if you're that concerned with spelldamage, you'd be well served to upgrade from the [Continuum Blade], perhaps to the [Merciless Gladiator's Gavel]; this is probably a better idea than putting Spinels in all your gear.

no just the mins, like do i need 4 epic agils or 3 epic agils? my next purchase will be the inscribed legplates and i plan on epic gemming that but i only have 50 badges, should have enough after kara on tuesday and 1 heroic if there 75. one more week if they are 100 cant remember how many it cost atm.

Here is a pretty good site to check out. You can search for almost any type of gear/item/spell/etc. and it has quite a few very useful filters to help narrow down.

For example, on your dodge question:
Gems - Items - World of Warcraft

You can change the criteria to match any other gems you are interested in.

I use this site pretty often. It is very helpful. I hope that helps out.