Protection and you! - Page 173

Cathela · 10/26/08, 5:00 AM

Originally Posted by Yenadar

I tested Hand of Salvation with a friend yesterday. It apparently works exactly like the Mage Invisibility buff prior to actually becoming invisible. It reduces their threat by a percentage as intended, if the player receiving the buff does nothing. If they take damage or take an action, the threat drop ends, although the buff remains.

I.E, casting it on someone doing a DPS rotation, you will be lucky to even get that first 2% drop. This is likely not intended, and probably just a cut-and-paste of code from the invisibility spell without enough changes.

Are you sure? I've used it several times and it's always seemed to work as advertised.

jere · 10/27/08, 12:30 AM

Same here. I tried it a couple times today and it seemed to work as the tooltip said, even when the player was taking damage from a mob.

Rasputin · 10/27/08, 12:38 AM

I also think it's working as it says it is. I ran a few heroics yesterday to finish out my Outland Dungeon achievements and I pulled off the tank a few times. I used HoS on myselfwhile still going full bore DPS and watched my threat drop and the tank pull it back exactly where expected.

Gunn · 10/27/08, 9:08 AM

It's definitely working as intended. I used it last night for the first time on M'uru. Worked like a charm

Tankenstein · 10/28/08, 1:40 PM

Re: Hand of Salvation testing

are you:
1. Accounting for increased tank threat lowering your threat percentage?

and

2. Verifying that it's not just your threat addon telling you it decreases without it actually decreasing?

Rasputin · 10/28/08, 1:45 PM

Originally Posted by Tankenstein

Re: Hand of Salvation testing

are you:
1. Accounting for increased tank threat lowering your threat percentage?

and

2. Verifying that it's not just your threat addon telling you it decreases without it actually decreasing?

Yes and yes. This wasn't scientific by any means, but a few points.

First, Omen is accurate now. It gets threat info directly from the server without any reverse engineering, because the client is now provided with that info.

Second, as I mentioned I continued going full bore. I was able to pull ahead of my tank, use HoS after I pulled, watch my threat decrease, and watch the tank regain threat at 110% of my own threat.

pope master · 10/28/08, 4:45 PM

Do we have any Post 3.0 Muru Void Sentinal tanking pallys on here? Are you wearing your normal tanking gear or are you throwing on some SR gear? How much? We made our first attempts on Muru last night and my healers were having to spam on me pretty hard. I was also tanking all of the spawns.

What kind of healers are you using? Are they positioned anywhere special? There were a couple of attempts where I just plain had to run out of range of my healers to pick up the adds. Thoughts, suggestions?

Russta · 10/28/08, 6:15 PM

I've tanked the Sentinals in 3.0 without SR just fine. I brought it with me and asked the healers if they felt stressed by me and they said not so I didn't put it on. I guess it depends on your role really. These days I tank the first Sentinal, the first set of spawns then grab up anymore spawns before moving over to Entropius when he pops.

It's difficult to share positional sense because it depends on how your raid is set up. As long as the Sentinals aren't near anyone else, it's fine. Generally though, the other tank and I do them in the left or right of the room (from entry perspective) depending on where they pop. We did get a request from the casters they the spawns are held as close to the inner ring as possible so they can all reach them though.

• frmorrison · 10/29/08, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by Gunn

It's definitely working as intended. I used it last night for the first time on M'uru. Worked like a charm

I can verify this as well. Hand of Salv works just like the tooltip says (not you are likely dpsing with the buff up, so you still gain threat with the buff up, so you get less than 20% less threat).

I haven't tried having two Hand of Salv buffs at the same time I bet they don't stack, however you should be able to cast one after the other.

Joasuf · 10/29/08, 5:24 AM

At times I tanked both the sentinels and the adds before the 3.0 patch. I just used my full tanking gear to maximise threat and minimise the damage from the sentinel as thats what really hurt. All it required was 2 priests on me full time and we had no significant issues. All you need is a large enough health pool to cope with the spikes when they occur (towards the end we didnt even use a grounding totem and so I ate 10k shadow bolts and 8-10k melee swings on top of adds damage).

Post 3.0 its pretty much the same but much more trivial in that it lasts 1/4th the time. Tanking in general is a lot more trivial now, last week our MT grabbed Entropius and built up threat, at 80% he DC'd and logged back in at 20% and still had threat and hadn't died.

Gunn · 10/29/08, 9:20 AM

I've tanked M'uru Void Spawns post patch. I used my SR cape and neck from BT.
I'm not sure I need either and likely won't use them. The following is why.

When the void spawn pops I use Holy Wrath. AOE damage and "STUN". They stay in place I consecrate. I have our Mages and Warlocks AOE the adds and within 3-4secs of popping they're all dead. I take damage for maybe 2 secs. Also Warlocks have a AOE move that stuns adds. (sorry don't remember the name atm).

So I really don't think SR is necessary as long as you're killing the adds immediately. Tonight I'm wearing no SR so I can pick up loose adds and Entropius if we have a bad transition.

Mordekhuul · 10/29/08, 9:51 AM

Does anyone have a bead on what kind of DPS we can turn out at 80 in raids when main tanking, when doing DPS during a fight once our assigned mob is dead (or between spawns, etc)?

It may not be the largest concern, with our TPS artificially inflated thanks to the extra multiplier built into RF, combined with a promised ability to swap to another spec at will. However, the dual spec issue won't solve it completely, as some prot paladins are bound to pick holy as their second spec, but won't be needed to heal on every fight they aren't tanking, necessarily.

I believe Blizzard gave up a target for tank spec'd classes in terms of their DPS output relative to a pure DPS spec'd toon, but I cannot find the post, nor do I have a reference to what percentage of a DPS spec'd toon we are doing in various situations at 80.

I have a feeling any concern would be lost in the sea of Retribution complaints right now, but it is something to keep in mind and hope that Blizzard fixes (if even needed) later, for all tanking classes, not just ours.

Redcape · 10/29/08, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by Mordekhuul

Does anyone have a bead on what kind of DPS we can turn out at 80 in raids when main tanking, when doing DPS during a fight once our assigned mob is dead (or between spawns, etc)?

I did some calculations using full dps plate with a prot spec and it looked like prot paladins would be maintaining 80% of a ret paladin's damage. It isn't blowing anyone's mind, but if you are asked to dps and you have good dps gear a prot paladin can deliver.

Smurrf · 10/29/08, 10:24 AM

I'm comfortable enough with Prot and its sustained DPS while not tanking that when dual-specs come out, I'm not going Holy or Ret with my second spec. Instead, I'm planning on maintaining a high threat spec, and one tuned for more survival. As a tank pre-patch, there were a couple of times that even with equal gear and stats to our MT, I wasn't able to tank and survive certain fights unless there was a tree druid in the raid. That's much less of a problem now, and should remain not really a factor, but I have a feeling there's going to be a couple of fights here & there where that extra survivability will be needed. If it's not, though, I want to be able to do my part to kill things faster, either when tanking or pulverizing the big dude's back.

Amare · 10/29/08, 10:31 AM

You never needed SR as a Pala Tank for Muru.

I tanked the Sentinels + Void Spawns before and after patch with my usual Sunwell Tank gear. There were no risks before the patch as long as your healers were spamming you and roughly 23k hp and now it is really a joke, on our first kill post patch a druid tank missed a couple of adds from the first wave and they happened to get aggrod by me while I was tanking a Sentinel.
So the entire fight I was tanking 2 Melee Adds from the side, a Sentinel and the Spawns without any problem.

Since they dont have Sunwell Radiance anymore there is really little damage on me compared to before when there was constanty a lot of damage on me but very much healable by a Paladin and Priest. The only times it was possible to die used to be when the Sentinel made a big melee hit, grounding totem missed the Void Blast for whatever reason (sometime one of the Blood Elf adds casted a Fireball in the Totem before) and an AOE Tick at the same time doing up to 28k spike dmg in a matter of maybe 1 second.

Threat also was never a problem, at times i forgot to buff myself Rigtheous Fury and it still worked out to some degree usually, you just had to make sure that Consecration is up at ALL times because not having it the second that the Sentinel dies will make the Spawns run off immediately. Ofc this is not even a problem now since you can use Holy Wrath instant as well.

Really it's piece of cake, first kill post patch I tanked so bad with the new skills, forgot to judge the new Seal a bunch of times I think, totally forgot about instant Holy Wrath and such but it didn't matter.