My numbers are correct actually, I did factor in the base miss rate, but forgot to take into account the base miss rate isn't shown on the character screen which in turn makes my post a bit misleading. The macro is a nice addition though.



I should add that.



Yes, I did. Will fix.

That's a good idea to add once it does become available through honor yes. It'll probably be the fastest to get epic tanking weapon at that point as well.

That's a good idea too. Fits well under the tanking advice section. I was actually kinda planning this, but only got around to writing some generic advice to start with.


That would be deeply appreciated as well.

Added a few more updates, including a section with tips on tanking the Murlocs at Morogrim.

I know this is a low content post, but I just wanted to thank you for making this thread. I'm a holy paladin looking to start tanking to get ready for 2.3, and this thread has helped immeasurably already.

Helpful macros would be a good thing to add in as well. I'm at work, so not positive these are the correct ones, but I use the following macros quite often (Find our taunt to be nearly unusable without the second macro).

Bubble-cancel Bubble:
/cast Divine Shield
/cancelaura Divine Shield

and

Taunt (selected mob or mobs targeting selected player ).
/cast [help] Righteous Defense; [target=targettarget] Righteous Defense

Along those lines, a section with a prot-pally's role in every fight might not be the worst thing ever. My guild's on Vashj, and (hopefully) soon on Kael, and I know coming up through SSC I was often questioned by my guild leader as to what I would be capable/good at doing. Doesn't have to be complicated, expect on those fights where we really kick ass (the ones you mentioned). But a list to be able to show a GL or RL to justify your spot on the fight/raid would be handy. I know the old thread was Paladin Main Tanking, but I'd imagine there are a fair amount of paladins out there who are more in an OT position like myself.

HKM - Tank High King, priest or warlock.
Gruul - Tank or heal. If you're sadistic/have a million spare mana pots OT. Make sure and time Holy Shield for Reverbs.
Mag - Channeler or Mag.
Hydross - Hydross or add(s). Can tank multiple adds easier with a very good resist set (>250 each buffed).
Lurker - Submerged inner ring adds or Lurker
TW - explained above
FLK - Pet is easiest, followed by Hunter, then priest if you have help on interrupts, then FLK/shammy (from what I've read it's a toss-up, personally haven't done either).
Leo - Channeler/ Leo. Arguably better than a warrior as it's easy to kill inner demon in full tank gear.
Vashj - Vashj/Naga tank. Don't need more than 2 tanks here.
Al'ar - Awesome add tank, can tank Al'ar too
VR - MT (i.e. pull), heal or if sadistic/have a million spare mana pots can OT.
Solarian - Trash alone justifies a prot pally, useful for gathering AoE adds during the fight.

And that's all I've seen. I'd love to have a list like that for KT/BT/Hyjal though. Much easier than reading through those 50+ page threads on each fight( or the ungodly long pally MT thread) to figure out what I might be useful at.

I've seen this macro on the official forums several times, but I haven't been able to figure out how it's not wrong.

Per the character screen, I have 286 Defense Rating, giving me +120 Defense Skill (286 * 150 / 355 = 120.8, round down), for a total of 490 Defense Skill ( adding that 120 to 350 base + 20 talent).

The function GetCombatRating(CR_DEFENSE_SKILL) returns Defense Skill (120.91054534912 for me), not Defense Rating. There's no need to multiply it by 150 / 355, from what I can see.

Am I not understanding the formula properly?

I have no idea on that regard, I just copied and pasted it in myself after giving it some in-game tests and it works. I'll do some further testing on it though.

As for Denogran, while I understand what you're talking about, in general a lot of fights in Hyjal/BT are basically capable of being handled by any kind of tank. There are a few exceptions here and there (E.G. Paladins might make a better infernal tank at Anetheron due to superior ranged aggro capabilities, and the mechanics of the Reliquary of Souls fight makes Paladin tanking on it unwise unless your guild severely outgears the encounter). Generally speaking it can be covered by the fact that "If it's multiple adds that spawn that need to be aggroed solidly fast, you're the best choice for it". I'll still add a section for it if though, but a lot of bosses can actually be summarized as "Do whatever your guild needs you for most in this fight".

Edit:

Any updates I'll be making will be held off until the weekend. I have a busy time today and tomorrow.

Sure, your mileage may vary. I was stating what I've seen, and to this point the dps has basically outgeared me, meaning I really have to work my ass off to stay ahead of them. On a fight like Gruul, I'd rather heal or "DPS" than worry about the tanking.

As for the list, I know that not all fights will have a distinction. But I'd love for this thread to be somewhere I could point my guild leader and raid leader and be like, "There, that's how prot paladins work. Those are fights we kick-ass on. Those are the fights where we'll struggle on." Where I'm at now, my guild finally trusts me as a *tank," and I don't forsee much trouble going forward. But I've definitely had tells in the past along the lines of "I'm not sure how protection paladins work, and what your role would be for this fight, so I need to sit you."

Most writeups, videos, etc of boss kills don't have paladins tanking. Most of the threads in these forums start out with several pages of strategies without paladin tanks, because the people doing the first kills pretty much didn't use us. So when my Raid Leader reads a strat, they aren't necessarily looking for how to best use a tankadin, but more how to kill the boss period. So it's up to me to suggest what I should be doing, like "Hey, I can tank so-and-so in this encounter." A quick-list of paladin tanking roles on various bosses would be invaluable for me to link to, and most likely fairly helpful to people just starting their 25-man progression as prot.

If there's anything I can help with, let me know. I've been meaning to create a Prot Pally 101 post for my own guild for some time, but haven't had the spare time, so thanks!

Might also be worth stressing how important it can be to get your DPS to give you those first few seconds to get aggro before they start opening up with the AE. DPS with an itchy trigger finger can make picking up AE packs a lot more challenging. I know I've heard of having DPS hold off a few seconds referred to as "common sense" in other threads, but if people are going to be looking at this thread for a definitive idea of how to utilize prot pallies, it might be helpful to let them know it's important.

Ah that's a way of thinking about making a list of things a Prot Paladin is good for that hadn't occured to me. I guess it makes sense not all of us are guild masters and/or raid leaders themselves. It should be easy enough for me to compile something like that, especially since I have experience with pretty much doing anything in tier 4 and tier 5 content, not in tier 6 content, but I have pretty broad experience there as well by now.

And good point about telling people to give their pallies a chance to aggro. I'll probably cover that properly in the Hyjal section since it matters a lot there.

hey folks, apologies if this isn't the correct thread to ask such a question but I have a request for some theorycrafting for a protection paladin.

Firstly, this is regarding the changes to some of the talents in patch 2.3. These talents are Vindication, Persuit of Justice and Seal of Command. I've been experimenting with the talent calculator on WoWhead and found that by losing 1 handed weapon specialisation, I have the following choices;

3/3 Vindication and 2/3 Persuit of Justice, or 3/3 Vindication and Seal of Command with 1 talent point spare to put in something else.

So the question is, How effective is vindication when tanking things like trash mobs in raids? I'm aware most bosses are immune to the effect. Also, is a -2 or 3% chance to be hit by a spell going to make much of a difference when tanking spell casting mobs? and, if the benefits are substantial in any way, is the loss of the 5% damage from 1 handed weapon specialization still too much of a loss to justify taking those talents.

Also in regards to seal of command, my thinking was getting a slow 1 hander and using the seal for something like offtanking might be a better choice then tanking with seal of righteousness or vengeance. The randomness of seal of 'casino' makes me unsure however.

I'm sorry if this question has already been covered but I couldn't find any information on it.