We usually do that fight with 2-3 holy pallies, one of which is always solo-healing graved people.

This sounds amazingly complex but it's really not once you see it in action. You see it once and you're like "Oh, ok.". The entire strategy that we use basically boils down to OT's getting initial aggro over as many murlocs as possible. Like I said, they don't pick all of them up nor do they hold them for a long time but it slows em up enough that even if murlocs do get through to a healer, it's only 1 -3 max per pack and they don't do enough damage to kill a healer, even if it's a priest. And then, when they do get through, they only hit 1-2 times max before consecrate picks them up.

Couple that with the fact that we position in him a place that causes the packs to get to the healers about 4-5 seconds apart and you have a situation where the damage on the healers is minimal if any. Our healers never have to hold back, never have to aggro drop etc. Hell, I think it's gotten to the point where they're TRYING to pull aggro on the murlocs :-)

If it's a Warrior OT, they Thunderclap them then drag them back (This works extremely well). If it's a druid, they swipe like crazy. If it's a pally... Do I have to even go over how they pick them up? (We have two pally tanks.)


The end result is that instead of 12 murlocs coming through and hitting a healer at once, 1-3 get through at once, MAX. Our next morogrim kill, I will try to record it and post it for you all to see the strat in action.


Edit: I just noticed that you're from Sparda! Holy tauren, I didn't think there were any other EJ-Loving protadins on our server. Congrats on your guys' recent Kael and early MH kills!

My thoughts on this:

Presuming you are near the 16k armor mark (I am on a couple hundred on either side of it depending on if I'm running Devotion Aura or not), then 391 armor is worth about 0.5% physical damage reduction (Math stolen from the Protection Warrior thread using that armor formula).

Against adds (such as Embers of Al'ar) that hit plate for ~1000 (pre-block), then 0.5% reduction is 5 damage less per hit. Even under the best buff situations, I run just under 50% avoidance (Miss, Dodge, Parry). Presuming you are uncrushable, your Block Rating will come into effect on any attack that hits you.

Given all that, against trash or adds, then 391 armor is worth about 5 Block Value. This is, of course, presuming you have ~16k armor and the adds are hitting you for ~1k.

Now, if we consider a boss who hits for 5k damage on plate, then 0.5% reduction from 391 armor is 25 damage less per hit, or the equivalent of 25 Block Value.

Basically, the value of Block Value decreases compared to armor as the hits against you increase in damage (Block Value shows better returns against trash and adds than against bosses), but how much Armor equates to X amount of Block Value will also depend on your current armor value (as your armor value increases, a fixed bonus like 391 from the ring becomes less valuable).

Apologies if I missed any math.

So, personally, I'd choose the 7th Ring of the Tirisfalen over the Kara ring.

I'm sure its a rare thing, but we actually ran into a problem with the tank getting Healing Aggro on Tidewalker last week. I can't find our logs to get the exact numbers, but basically the tank got two Earthshield healing crits and a Prayer of Mending proc milliseconds after the murlocs spawned. The spawn from his end of the room (FLK side) entered melee range of him well before i could get significantly enough above his healing aggro to pull them to me. The other group charged by me, and the few that got within melee range of me stuck to me (as i was within 30% of his heaing aggro), but that was enough to interrupt any further heals from me to try to rip the others all back to me.

It was a bizarre series of luck that probably is likely to happen only very rarely, but there you have it.

As a note: our Morogrim strategy is to tank him at the entrance to the FLK hallway, with the ranged (including Warlocks) near the top of his ramp. I and my healer are at the bottom of his ramp (putting us out of Grave range). I am constantly spamming Holy Light on the warlocks (canceling the casts at 0.5 sec left so as to not waste mana). When an Earthquake hits, I let the Holy Light complete and then do another immediately on the next hurt Warlock. I can cast 4 before murlocs hit me with the best timing, 3 being more typical.

Because certain heals do end up giving healing aggro to the healed person (Earth Shield being a good example), it is not that uncommon to see the murlocs aggro the tank. It is certainly a sight to see of course. You would think that the murlocs would eat up the warrior's shield block charges and cause him to get crushed by morogrim but we've never had a tank death due to this (Maybe we're just lucky).

Anytime that this happens, I throw my shield at them if I can and taunt them as well. If any remain, it doesnt take long for our healers to pull healing aggro back off of the morogrim tank. Once they start heading for the healers, they hit my consecrate and then stick to me like glue. Like I said in a previous post, I think our healers TRY to pull and keep aggro on the murlocs. You'll never see a raid get healed to full so quickly after an earthquake.

It's a reduction of around 0.5% physical damage relative to the unmitigated damage amount. But since you're basing your calculations on the damage after mitigation ("hits plate for ~1000") you need to look at the damage reduction relative to the that, which will be in the neighborhood of 1.2% I think.

Well forgive me if theres already information about this topic, i tried to search and didnt find anything interesting.

Well for startes i must say i got no experience with prot, i was holy since 58 and never respecced for the other trees. That said im looking for some help. Im currently leveling a new paladin that will probably tank (and i can get alot of information on this thread already) but thats not the problem...im also interest in aoe ''farming'', especially soloing instances not only for the money but because i like the chalenge and i didnt visit those places for months.

So can someone suggest a good spec, and items that will improve this role?

And a last question...how superior is prot vs holy when it comes to aoe? Is it far far superior?

Thanks in advance.

to wolftusk, I believe there's a post to that effect somewhere in the Maintankadin forums Maintankadin :: Index

to gothik, prot paladin AoE is VASTLY superior to holy paladin aoe farming, because of the huge amount of mitigation, and the additional reflective damage. Also, visit the aforementioned forums for more information on different aspects of playing protection paladin.

Where are you guys at in progression? Pally tanks really shine in SSC and TK. Morogrim, Leotheras, Solarian and VR are all fights that are made easier by pally tanks to a certain degree. The best thing to do is to let your actions speak louder than words and just kick ass at tanking. Also, don't give pally tanks a bad name... Have good attendance with your guild, don't throw fits when you're asked to heal, get the best possible out-of-raid gems/enchants/gears etc.

My guild was the same way at first when we were just starting SSC. I didn't push to respec to prot until we had enough holy pallies to replace my healing spot and until we were at bosses that it helped to have pally tanks on. I was also a frequent visitor to these forums. When it was time for me to respec, I had the gear, knowledge and a will to succeed. I didn't disappoint them.

I'm now our raid leader and GM and they couldn't trust in me or believe me more. I've tanked most of everything in SSC and TK and having a pally tank for Morogrim, Leotheras and Solarian significantly enhanced our rate of progression. We have never done Leo without me tanking Human form and our FR warrior tanking demon form for example.

Best of luck to you.

You might wanna check out: AOE Protection Guide The Holy Light

Has a lot of info on Prot AoE grinding. I think this thread is more specific to End-Game Paladin Tanking viability. But the link above got me from level 35-70. Also, since Blessing of Sanctuary and Reckoning are both fairly deep into the protection tree, i would say that prot is very much superior to holy. Not to mention, the mitigation talents help reduce incoming damage when you have many mobs on you at once.

Thank you very much. Now i got some nice forums/sites to read and ill return here when im 70, but this time to discuss main tanking

Hello fellow Gilneas peep. Sparda actually rocks 2 prot-specced pallies now, which kicks ass. My guild's determined that a prot spec pally is basically required for TW, Al'ar, and I think Kael, which means I can take vacations without killing the guild.

As for the tank aggro - our mantra is no PoM, no Earthshield, and I think a Druid heal does it as well on the tank during murlocs. Same deal with tanks on the platforms for Al'ar. Those heals just aren't worth the hassle of the confusion that results.