Hurricane's limited by it's cooldown, the Slow mages have isn't the spell you linked (It's this one) and only slows casting speed and ranged attack speed. I wasn't aware of Soothing Kiss though.
Thanks for the correction on Slow.
Hurricane certainly is of limited use in general situations, but for the specific use of quelling a periodic enrage, or easing a phase transition, I think it would be quite useful. Hurricane is actually a greater reduction than Improved Thunderclap, so in an infinite mana situation with zero DPS concerns it's worth using every cooldown anyway.
I didn't see this answered with a quick scan, but apologies if I'm repeating a previous question.
Our old main tank is on extended hiatus, and I'm going prot on raids these days. It's looking possible that I'll tank Illidan this week, and had a couple questions.
I heard once that shear cannot miss, so you need to gear such that you have 102.4 avoidance without factoring in miss rate. Is this correct? And assuming I do get screwed by the lag gap between holy shields, can you divine shield shear off? Thanks.
The big 'gotcha' with +damage as opposed to 2% threat is a fairly significant amount of our threat comes from SA returns, as well as the seal/reseal mechanic, and the calculations I've run myself seem to back them up. 2% threat is a not insignifcant amount while dealing with threat capped DPS (because of the 100/110/130), so I'm pretty happy with my choice.
And now I just remembered my gorefiend gloves are unenchanted. D'oh.
Threat from mana gains isn't affected by threat modifiers, so the glove enchant doesn't do anything special for threat from SA.
Threat from mana gains isn't affected by threat modifiers, so the glove enchant doesn't do anything special for threat from SA.
Was there testing done on this? I was under the impression that any power gains that show up in the combat log (non-regen) were subject to threat modifiers (and SA is credited to you in the combat log) - are mana gains different from health gains in this respect?
Was there testing done on this? I was under the impression that any power gains that show up in the combat log (non-regen) were subject to threat modifiers (and SA is credited to you in the combat log) - are mana gains different from health gains in this respect?
VT and Bloodrage have been shown to unquestionable be unmodified by threat modifiers, and there's some testing scattered around that thread on other regen sources. Threat-1.0 doesn't apply modifiers to any power gains and appears to be accurate for paladin threat, so SA is probably not an exception.
VT and Bloodrage have been shown to unquestionable be unmodified by threat modifiers, and there's some testing scattered around that thread on other regen sources. Threat-1.0 doesn't apply modifiers to any power gains and appears to be accurate for paladin threat, so SA is probably not an exception.
Fair enough, I did not know this. Thank you.
Originally Posted by bartolimu
It makes me want to hit Marge Thatcher on the nose with a rolled up newspaper.
You may want to add in a link to my gear spreadsheet.
Which I will be posting as soon as I can get through the damn '10 post requirements'
Until then, here it is:
This is the Tankadin Gear Calculator. Not a Keylogger.
This is a interactive database listing every single possible item you could want to use to tank with. It then calculates your end stats, avoidance, and even threat. Still under development; this is first release and would really appreciate some people testing it out to iron out all the issues.
You can socket gems, enchant items, calculate buffs on yourself.
Basically this is a help to all those struggling to work out if a certain upgrade will leave them Crushable, to see wether its worth the Gold spent on one belt compared to the badges for another...
This requires Excel 2007 to work fully. The gem socketting fuctionality will not work completely with 2003, but i will work on a downgraded version.
That looks like a really nice tool you are developing. I just spent half my lunch break playing with it and I was impressed. However, I did see a few shortcomings/issues which I want to examine:
(1) In the gear selection, you seem to have hard-coded values for the Agility -> Dodge conversion (and the other rating conversions too). Do you account for Blessing of Kings anywhere? BoK can make up a good bit of uncrushability; I'm just trying to figure out where it is accounted for.
(2) Similarly, you have full talent trees implemented, but you seem to have 30% block (for Holy Shield) hard coded into your avoidance tally. You should probably change this to support the talent tree, ie, check to see if Holy Shield is selected. (This can help non-prot pallies determine if they can viably tank stuff - like heroics, for example.)
(3) In the talent trees, if you have any talents there just for show (IE, you don't implement them), I would indicate that in some way. (They are still helpful for people building their talent trees, but people should realize that the talents won't "work".) In various other sheets, I've seen implemented talents in bold and unimplemented ones in unbolded typeface, but in italics.
(4) Is there support for downranking spells? Will there be?
(5) Similarly, maybe you could implement an option for incoming damage, compare that to the healing needed to sustain a rotation, and run an OOM calculation. (Or is this there somewhere and I'm missing it?)
Overall, it looks really nice. I'll definitely be playing with it more.
Hello, figured this was a decently appropriate thread. Quick question: Is the damage reflected by a shield spike (Iron, Mithril, Felsteel, etc), affected by armor? I don't have any spikes, anywhere, ingame, or craftable by anyone I know, or on the AH, to test.
Edit- Got a crafter, tested, and they are not affected by armor. (But they are affected by defensive stance penalty in an odd way)
1), 2). Good idea. The Agi-> Dodge is correctly calculated on the actual Character sheet, but the individual gear pieces only show agi/25. I'll update this in the next release. Same with Holy Shield, though the reason this was not fully implemented is simply that I expect anyone using the calculator to spec into HS.
(3) In the talent trees, if you have any talents there just for show (IE, you don't implement them), I would indicate that in some way. (They are still helpful for people building their talent trees, but people should realize that the talents won't "work".) In various other sheets, I've seen implemented talents in bold and unimplemented ones in unbolded typeface, but in italics.
4) Downranking was not implemented for first release as the coefficient changes for lower ranks were a little difficult to implement (still not sure if even the highest rank of SoR is correct, let alone lower ranks, for example). I have worked out how to code this though and will look at it in future.
5) There should be a box in the top right of the Threat tab showing the healing needed per second to sustain your mana usage, and also the threat generated from Spiritual Attunement.
Thanks for replying, it seems that the requirement to have excel 2007 is a bit much for some people but it was the only way to implement Gems the way I wanted to .
Any more feedback much appreciated.
5) There should be a box in the top right of the Threat tab showing the healing needed per second to sustain your mana usage, and also the threat generated from Spiritual Attunement.
...
Right, I saw that. It is definitely helpful in some ways. However, in practice you can't control your incoming DPS, but you can control your mana usage. Thus, currently all that figure is telling you is the minimum fight where you can go all-out on threat without going OOM, rather than helping to chart a course for not going OOM at lower incoming DPS levels.
I didn't see this answered with a quick scan, but apologies if I'm repeating a previous question.
Our old main tank is on extended hiatus, and I'm going prot on raids these days. It's looking possible that I'll tank Illidan this week, and had a couple questions.
I heard once that shear cannot miss, so you need to gear such that you have 102.4 avoidance without factoring in miss rate. Is this correct? And assuming I do get screwed by the lag gap between holy shields, can you divine shield shear off? Thanks.
I think noone answered yet.
You need 101.8% without miss to be immune to shear which is fairly managable. As for lag delays: If it looks like it could happen that shear will occur just at the end of your HS-cooldown, just wait 2-4 seconds. I'm not sure about DS since I can't think of any person who would do this. It's risky, even with a cancelaura macro.
Is single target dmg possible or just a pipe dream?
I was doing some quests in NS last night - killing the mobs that drain your mana. Buggered if im going to AoE tank them.
Im the typical 0/49/12 tank build. i understand that SoR scales with SpDmg...where as SoC scales with AP. when AoE multi mob grinding isnt an option... how best can a prot pally do DPS? If i was to move 1pt into Command...get myself a big slow 2hander and ret type gear would i do more dmg (single target) Or should i stay as is, stack Sp Dmg with a one hander + shield and just keep judging ?
A two-hander with SoR is better for mobs you can't AoE tank and/or mobs that don't do physical attacks (and thus can't be blocked). You lose some spelldamage, but you more than make up for it with the higher white damage and the ~20% bonus to SoR that you get with a 2-hander. Even better if you have Reckoning.
Also, Rank 1 Consecration is a decent amount of damage at a cheap price.
My comrades are my weapons, and I am their shield.
I actually find I get better results with a one-handed caster weapon and a spell damage shield regardless of the type of mob I'm fighting... But that's probably because of the huge disparity between the quality of my spell damage weaponry versus my two-handed weapon; an epic weapon from Hyjal trash versus a random level 70 blue.
Mana Burning mobs are just going to be a pain though. But typically for soloing I use consecration rank 3 in addition to my other gear. I have ~750 spell damage in the gear I use when soloing which makes that rank of consecration cause 100 damage per tick. I (mostly) use my healing gear set for soloing as well, the mana/5 on it is very nice to have, it means I may not kill fast, but at least I can keep it up for a while.
buff /bʌf/ Pronunciation[buhf]
–verb (used with object)
- to reduce or deaden the force of
I was wondering if you could help me out... having taken a break from raiding for a while, and only having the time now to raid on the occasional evening, I'm looking forward to the removal of BT/Hyjal attunements, and trying to get my tanking gear up to snuff for a bit of offtanking.
I'm gathering a lot of Badges, and trying to figure out which items represent the best upgrades for me. I already have the BP, and am trying to figure out which other items represent the best upgrade over my current gear, taking badge cost into account.
A lot of the badge gear seems to be dropping Defence and avoidance stats for Stamina and Expertise, and I'm obviously keen to stay uncrittable and uncrushable, preferably while being able to wear the new 2.4 +57 Sta trinket, and the Furies Deck card, rather than leaning on the Figurine of the Collossus. I'm also not sure just how good Expertise is for a paladin.. only really increasing threat from white + SoR damage, plus even taking Reckoning into account, we throw fewer melee hits at a mob to be potentially parry-gibbed.
With that in mind, what priority should I give the badge upgrades? (Though I'll hang onto my badges awhile to see if this mythical t6 badge gear vendor ever appears)
I actually find I get better results with a one-handed caster weapon and a spell damage shield regardless of the type of mob I'm fighting... But that's probably because of the huge disparity between the quality of my spell damage weaponry versus my two-handed weapon; an epic weapon from Hyjal trash versus a random level 70 blue.
Yeah, I should have said that I was assuming roughly equivalent gear levels.
Incidentally, I really really like [Hammer of the Naaru] off of Maulgar as a utility two-hander for prot paladins. Gem and enchant it for spelldamage and you get a weapon with 120 physical dps and 90-100 spelldamage, which makes it a fun toy to play with.
My comrades are my weapons, and I am their shield.
It seems to be more rebalancing at an individual level than some scalar budget increase. [Libram of Absolute Truth] goes from 27 mana reduced on HL to 84, which is more than a threefold increase while Libram of Divine Purpose is about 1.5x better. Libram of Souls Redeemed goes to +120 on HL, but +60 on FoL which is a nerf for FoL spamming.
The new Tome of the Lightbringer is really very nice.
After looking over the new trinket from Heroic Magister's Terrace, Commendation of Kael'thas, how would you compare that to the furies deck for a prot paladin for *most* fights
After looking over the new trinket from Heroic Magister's Terrace, Commendation of Kael'thas, how would you compare that to the furies deck for a prot paladin for *most* fights
I'm not a Prot paladin, but a tanking druid, and that new Commendation trinket makes me drool just thinking about it. If the fight is not very agro sensitive, the proc from the Furies deck is next to pointless. I'd use the new trinket over Furies 100% of the time as a Feral Druid. That is a significant amount of dodge rating, and 35% is a number you'll see fairly frequently on heavier hitting bosses.
Also, I forgot to mention, that + Ardent Defender is a really nice combo for when you dip low. Pretty much any and all tanks should get this trinket as soon as possible.
The Commendation is simply one of the best tanking trinkets out there. It's better than any of the stamina trinkets, and while it doesn't have the manual control of a normal avoidance trinket (Which can be handy at times), the benefit of having a server-side addition of 20% extra dodge when you drop below 35% health is simply amazing.
The darkmoon card doesn't even compare. The threat boost from it isn't that big; I'd say the threat boost has never been the reason to use the darkmoon card anyway.
I'd probably choose to use it over the darkmoon card even if it didn't have the stamina on it.
buff /bʌf/ Pronunciation[buhf]
–verb (used with object)
- to reduce or deaden the force of
Indeed, I use the Furies card on my tankadin primarily for the stamina boost, secondarily for the threat boost.
I poked through this thread a bit trying to find a post about a spell damage goal for tanking off various tiers of DPSers, and couldn't find anything. E.g. t4: Recommend __ - __ spell damage, t5: Recommend __ - __ spell damage, etc. I felt like I was really hitting a wall back when I was playing my tankadin, as I had to slot for pure stam to survive against 2.0/2.1 SSC/TK trash, and I really had no chance of surviving the hits unless I put on the offset kara warrior gear for raw avoidance and stam over the spell damage of prot t4. I felt like I was having to make a choice between appropriate threat generation and the ability to survive, and I never was even satisfied with either side no matter how I stacked my gear. Eventually I realized I was not measuring up to the bulls and bears, and rather than go holy simply stopped raiding.
Fast forward a few months, I reroll a resto shaman to be able to catch up with my guild in t6 content. Now I'm seeing dozens of prot pallies with obscene gear. 4/5 t6, the helm off illidan, bulwark, ToC main hand. Clearly there are people out there making it work, and I can't help but think I was just doing it wrong. DId I make a mistake stacking solid stars in my gear? Should I have bid on more of the tier gear and gotten 4/5 t4? I miss tanking really bad and I really want my assumptions on tankadin viability to be wrong, even though it's probably too late for me to get caught up in gear enough to tank in BC cutting edge content.
EDIT: Was going to armory link, but I'm logged out in heal gear. T4 helm/shoulders, all the kara offset pieces, SSC tank rings/neck/trink + Furies darkmoon card. Still using CoT revered sword due to not being allowed to roll on Gruul/Leo swords.
02/06/08, 8:16 AM
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