Protection and you! - Page 40

vorda · 01/06/08, 5:49 AM

Phase 3: Equip-macro to Healing shield/mace, find somewhere nice and off-heal. Anything helps.

I dont get this. He does like 1.2 k damage each spell you cast, which usually makes only casting high ranked Holy Light a 'netto gain' in hp.
I would think is in no way sustainable in your prot gear and you would be better off just trying to avoid as much damage as possible.

Becca · 01/06/08, 5:56 AM

I dont get this. He does like 1.2 k damage each spell you cast, which usually makes only casting high ranked Holy Light a 'netto gain' in hp.
I would think is in no way sustainable in your prot gear and you would be better off just trying to avoid as much damage as possible.

Without such a swap, in my pure tanking gear, I heal for 2500-3500. I take 1250 (or less on partial) and I have the highest HP in the raid. Why on earth would you NOT heal in this phase when you can get a positive return, and a lot of your mana will be returned from Tornado/cast damage? Even if the net gain was 0, you're transfering damage from someone with 8000-11000 HP to you, with 20,000 HP and is going to get focus-healed by your healers in the transition, anyway.

I suppose I should note we use nature resistance totem or hunter nature resistance for the healing group since the cast damage can be mitigated.

Gunn · 01/08/08, 10:24 AM

It makes far more sense for the Paladin to help heal on ZA - Boss encounters that require only 1 tank, then to tank and have the other tank DPS.

with the exception of
- a protect pally that carries no healing gear, which would make them very lame
- the other tank is not at the gear/skill level to successfully tank them

That would be for Lynx, Eagle, Hex-lord, and Zul'jin

Braque · 01/08/08, 10:59 AM

I disagree.

I don't see any point in having "extra" healing beyond what's required, and for the most part, the off-tank can be in a Windfury group, and make a non trivial contribution to the damage done.

More dps gets the fight over sooner, which if your going for ZA timed event loot is a valuable contribution. What's more, I spec Imp. SotC, and if I'm not tanking the raid misses out on the extra crit for some, if not all, of the encounter.

On the other hand, when I trash-tank the waves in Hyjal, on 3 of the 4 bosses I do swap to healing gear after the trash waves have been dealt with.

Kasi · 01/08/08, 11:10 AM

If the other tank is a prot warrior, well then thats really just too much prot. The second tank imo should be a feral druid or a hybrid warrior. If it did come down to a prot war vs prot pally than it really depends on the fight. I really don't think it matters on eagle or Hex Lord (Lynx does need 2 tanks), but I think the prot warrior is the better choice for Zul'jin, gear being equal and all. Extra healing in p3 and p4 to me is a good thing, better than having a gimped prot dps in there.

Tilted · 01/08/08, 1:05 PM

Originally Posted by Braque

I disagree.

I don't see any point in having "extra" healing beyond what's required, and for the most part, the off-tank can be in a Windfury group, and make a non trivial contribution to the damage done.

More dps gets the fight over sooner, which if your going for ZA timed event loot is a valuable contribution. What's more, I spec Imp. SotC, and if I'm not tanking the raid misses out on the extra crit for some, if not all, of the encounter.

On the other hand, when I trash-tank the waves in Hyjal, on 3 of the 4 bosses I do swap to healing gear after the trash waves have been dealt with.

It really comes down to where your group is at in terms of progression through the zone. If you're struggling to get bosses down, then the added healing can be extremely helpful, functioning as a cushion until everyone is comfortable with the encounters. On the other hand, when you're going for successive timers you need every drop of damage you can get.

Regarding prot warrior plus prot pally, I've seen some prot warriors crank out some disgustingly high DPS given their spec. There's nothing wrong with letting them chop away on a given fight if healing is under control.

Cathela · 01/09/08, 3:12 AM

Prot warriors can dps quite well after the recent changes to Devastate. Many don't bother to collect dps gear, but those that do can acquit themselves quite well if they know what they're doing. Whether it's better to have the prot warrior doing dps or the prot paladin healing depends on a lot of factors; you really can't make a blanket statement one way or the other.

Dianora · 01/09/08, 1:51 PM

Well, this would go under the "Onxyia Deep Breath more", but some Protection Paladin are still experiencing inconsistent behavior with Improved Righteous Fury and aggro. It'll be fine some of the time, but not all of the time. We have an experienced Prot Paladin loosing the Al'ar bird add during phase 1 after a Avenger's Shield->Consecration->JoR->Holy Shield. Just to be sure, he check to make sure he doesn't have salvation, and cast Righteous Fury with Full Mana.

Deth · 01/09/08, 2:41 PM

Wow I always thought I was smoking something when I felt righteous wasn't doing it. Anyone else sometimes feel like their threat drops considerably for no reason?

I usually noticed it more when I zoned with the buff or if I tried to cast it right after I zoned. Now just as a habit I recast righteous fury every time I zone and about a minute after the instance load.

I'm really hoping this is just my complete imagination.

Gunn · 01/09/08, 2:43 PM

Originally Posted by Braque

I disagree.

I don't see any point in having "extra" healing beyond what's required, and for the most part, the off-tank can be in a Windfury group, and make a non trivial contribution to the damage done.

More dps gets the fight over sooner, which if your going for ZA timed event loot is a valuable contribution. What's more, I spec Imp. SotC, and if I'm not tanking the raid misses out on the extra crit for some, if not all, of the encounter.

On the other hand, when I trash-tank the waves in Hyjal, on 3 of the 4 bosses I do swap to healing gear after the trash waves have been dealt with.

If one thing I"m learning about posting here is that everyone needs to completely clarify every comment otherwise people look for a reason to disagree.

My original ZA tanking post was meant for people newly entering ZA without Tier 5 gear or higher. If you're full clearing ZA then you don't need anyone's advice on how to tank it. You obviously have it handled. However If you're just entering the zone for the first time and wondering how you should start attempting these fights, YOU WILL NOT BE DOING TIMED EVENT and thusly the added healing will be far more beneficial to defeating a boss then more DPS.

You can disagree with me all you want if you have SSC and TK and above on full clear, because my post isn't meant for you.

But telling people newly entering ZA to rely on DPS instead of Healing when given a "what should the off-tank do". You're crazy if you think DPS is more important.

Arakai · 01/10/08, 10:37 PM

If I'm allowed to start the fight as the MT, I tend to do just fine holding aggro. My problem is that increasingly as we move into larger instances the DPSers are blasting mobs while they are enroute to me and getting them back is very hard. I use macros to drop BoP for casters and Righteous Defense but even when RD hits, many times the mob turns right back to the DPSer.

Any suggestions? Is this a SD issue or something I'm not doing properly??

Thanks

The World of Warcraft Armory

vorda · 01/10/08, 10:52 PM

Is that Sun Eater really your main tanking weapon or did you just happen to log out with it?

Arakai · 01/10/08, 11:37 PM

It was for a while (when I was def starved) but in this case I just happened to log out with it. Not sure if it updated yet but I also have the hammer from kara's prince with +40 spell on it and the sword from keepers of time, as well as the crystalforged sword. I've been experimenting a little and wanted to see if the sun eater's higher white dmg would help with aggro (I had read it wouldn't but it *seemed* like I held aggro better when I used it).

Sarkan-ZdC · 01/11/08, 4:32 AM

You did put +40 Spelldamage on the Karazhan Prince Healing Hammer??

Braque · 01/11/08, 5:21 AM

Arakai - first of all, a few points to consider.

(1) If dps starts too soon that's their own fault, not yours.

(2) If a dps pulls agro and gets a BoP the BoP *temporarily* reduces their threat to zero, and you'll not be able to gain their threat lead from your taunt. BoP to save them *only* if your taunt is resisted or the mob is immune, because once BoP expires their threat on the mob will be restored/reactivated. Casters that get a BoP or taunt need to learn to stop dps while you regain a safe threat lead.

That said, you're armoury shows some pretty questionable gear/gem/enchant choices; your tanking weapon is, shall we say, sub optimal. I would suggest you reenchant your Light's Justice for healing and consign it to your healing set, and go back to either the KoT rep sword, or your Crystalforged Sword until you can either finish the grind to exulted with Lower City, and get their spell damage mace, or arena/honour grind for the Gladiator mace.