I have read through the Hydross Resist thread, and there were good Main Tank numbers and lots of pointless debates, but really no good numbers for the OT.
Assuming I am going to be wearing a mixed set, what numbers should I look for in my resistances and how important is being Crit Immune when taking ads? Also as a pali in SSC at average gear for that place, should I be tanking all 4 ads? 3? 2?
Thanks!
I usually end up tanking all 4 adds ..simply because the other druid tank can multi tank as well as a paladin can. I use a mix of nature and frost gear, and switch my trinkets to straight defense trinkets. I end up with about 250 frost and 250 nature, and 480 defense. that includes aura's etc.
From the 2.4.2 patch notes: [Nightfall] now has a chance to fail on targets over level 60.
I looked all over, but could not find anyone who has actually tested what the new chance is. I was working on the mats for a Nightfall, but now I don't know if I should bother. If the chance were 10%, that would be one thing, but if the chance were 90%...
Does anyone know, or could anyone test?
The obvious intent of the change is to make Nightfall no longer worth using at 70, so I'm sure the nerf was hard enough to make it no longer worth using.
My comrades are my weapons, and I am their shield.
Against random mobs in Netherstorm lvl 68-70: 30mins 372 tracked hits, zero procs...
Against random mobs in Winterspring lvl 58-59: Spent maybe 10mins just to make sure it was still working, procced at the usual rate of around 15% (121 hits, 10procs in this particular testing)
Back to Netherstorm: Another hour and 712 swings on the logs I'm about to come here and report that it must be broken entirely, and something very disappointing happens... it procs, once on a lvl 68 Basilisk. Sadly it actually proccing shows it's not broken, but that the proc rate is >.1% by my results. (1084 hits, 1 proc) maybe just a bad string of luck, but it doesn't bode well.
I am currently trying to decide which piece of gear I ought to upgrade through badges. I currently have 94 badges, so I am looking at the 100 badge rewards. I was wondering if you guys might have some advice for me. Link to my Armory
I am looking for an upgrade that will last as long as possible. My guild is currently 5/6 SSC and 2/4 TK. I mainly tank trash pulls and AoE stuff. Our main tank has been the same warrior since MC days, and the guild does not seem inclined to give me a shot at anything other than AoE and trash pulls. I am thinking of picking up the Chestplate of Stoicism or the Legplates of the Aldor. Mainly I have been considering the chestplate, since I feel the upgrade is bigger from Nightbane Chest, as opposed to T5 legs to badge pants. Also I think it is important to mention; my guild has not killed Zul'Jin, so the breastplate from him is not readily available to me. I run ZA with a friend's guild when they need an OT, but that does not happen often.
Any advice would be welcome.
I know my current spec is a little odd - I respec'd healing for Hex lord, and then respec'd in a hurry for a TK raid. Will rework my spec when I get home
I am currently trying to decide which piece of gear I ought to upgrade through badges. I currently have 94 badges, so I am looking at the 100 badge rewards. I was wondering if you guys might have some advice for me. Link to my Armory
I am looking for an upgrade that will last as long as possible. My guild is currently 5/6 SSC and 2/4 TK. I mainly tank trash pulls and AoE stuff. Our main tank has been the same warrior since MC days, and the guild does not seem inclined to give me a shot at anything other than AoE and trash pulls. I am thinking of picking up the Chestplate of Stoicism or the Legplates of the Aldor. Mainly I have been considering the chestplate, since I feel the upgrade is bigger from Nightbane Chest, as opposed to T5 legs to badge pants. Also I think it is important to mention; my guild has not killed Zul'Jin, so the breastplate from him is not readily available to me. I run ZA with a friend's guild when they need an OT, but that does not happen often.
Any advice would be welcome.
I know my current spec is a little odd - I respec'd healing for Hex lord, and then respec'd in a hurry for a TK raid. Will rework my spec when I get home
If you're main role is to off tank or aoe tank then spell damage tanking gear is the way to go. That being said, if you need an upgraded chest piece I'd go for the old badge chest [Chestguard of the Stoic Guardian]. I've found that when you're aoe tanking and off tanking the more spell damage you have the better. The other main stats you'll want are Block and Block Value. I can't look at your armory since I'm at work but I can check that out later for any specific upgrades.
On the flip side, if you were main tanking you'd be concerned with more mitigation like dodge and parry, and not as much spell damage. Usually in a main-tanking situation a spell damage weapon & any tier gear will usually take care of all the spell damage you need while you cap your defense and up your mitigation.
I could be wrong considering I've mainly raided as ret. But I have done tanking on the content you're doing and the standards I mentioned worked well for me when I wasn't in a MT position. But I did keep a MT set for when the time came that I'd have to fill in for our MT if he was out.
Replacing t5 Leggings with Legplates of the Aldor would be a good idea, but at your progress level you should consider also [Unwavering Legguards]...good chunk of avoidance, block value and stamina. I also bought the Legplates of the Aldor recently and applied the epic Spellthread on it for threat-sensitive fights (well, every fight is kinda aggro-sensitive, but you know what i mean...).
Personally i would advice you to take [Chestguard of the Stoic Guardian]. Its kinda cheaper than [Shattrath Protectorate's Breastplate] und has more future... I also bought the Stoicism BP, but to be honest more to *have* it than to wear it ;-)
Chestguard of the Stoic Guardian I'm replacing soon with T6 Breastplate, until then its part of most of my garderobe...
So if i would be you, buy Unwavering Legguards and Chestguard of the Stoic Guardian.
p.s. greetings, Cathela... made some progress since your hydross preps
I am a holy paladin that has been AOE tanking in MH. We are now starting on Felmyst. What kind of stats do I need to effectively tank the Felmyst adds? Thanks for the input.
I am looking for an upgrade that will last as long as possible. My guild is currently 5/6 SSC and 2/4 TK. I mainly tank trash pulls and AoE stuff. Our main tank has been the same warrior since MC days, and the guild does not seem inclined to give me a shot at anything other than AoE and trash pulls. I am thinking of picking up the Chestplate of Stoicism or the Legplates of the Aldor. Mainly I have been considering the chestplate, since I feel the upgrade is bigger from Nightbane Chest, as opposed to T5 legs to badge pants.
I agree with your logic in considering the chestpiece first. You'll be trading up to a spell damage piece, which will increase your main role -- holding threat on trash packs. I tend to prefer the [Chestguard of the Stoic Guardian] over [Shattrath Protectorate's Breastplate] simply because it has a lot more avoidance -- and also hedges your bets if you ever do need to MT/OT on boss fights in the future. It has more avoidance, and the spell hit on the Shattrath's is somewhat weird.
Simply, if you don't have [Chestguard of the Stoic Guardian], you should get it. The legs are also a great investment, but the chestpiece is one of the best paladin tanking items in the game at any level and will not be replaced until Illidan.
Regardless of loosing out on a lot of TPS by not using HS, I'm pretty sure the gear to become passive crush immune as a paladin without major trade offs (gemming for dodge/defense, using Figurine of the Colossus, etc) does not exist.
Here's a set someone on maintankadin worked out for attaining 102.4% without HS.
I am currently trying to decide which piece of gear I ought to upgrade through badges. I currently have 94 badges, so I am looking at the 100 badge rewards. I was wondering if you guys might have some advice for me. Link to my Armory
I am looking for an upgrade that will last as long as possible. My guild is currently 5/6 SSC and 2/4 TK. I mainly tank trash pulls and AoE stuff. Our main tank has been the same warrior since MC days, and the guild does not seem inclined to give me a shot at anything other than AoE and trash pulls. I am thinking of picking up the Chestplate of Stoicism or the Legplates of the Aldor. Mainly I have been considering the chestplate, since I feel the upgrade is bigger from Nightbane Chest, as opposed to T5 legs to badge pants. Also I think it is important to mention; my guild has not killed Zul'Jin, so the breastplate from him is not readily available to me. I run ZA with a friend's guild when they need an OT, but that does not happen often.
Any advice would be welcome.]
Greetings, brother. I am in a similar position as you; 5/6 SSC, 3/4 TK, 2/5 MH. Although it looks like the drops have been kinder to you
When tank survival is a problem, our guild has a couple protection warriors and a bear druid who are seriously beefed for that kind of thing. My concern is having threat in situations, whether AoE or single-target, where it is difficult or even impossible for them to do so.
Thus I went with the Shattrath Protectorate's Breastplate and, yes, Blue's Greaves of the Righteous Guardian, and I even socketed things besides Solid Stars. I always apply Superior Wizard Oil. So I always have, at minimum, around 500 spellpower. For raids, I use a Flask of either Supreme Power or Blinding Light for another 70-80 damage. For heroics, Karazhan, and Mt. Hyjal trash I switch in a few pieces for around 40 more spellpower.
I'm only just above the crushing blow threshold, and yeah, my HPs are lower than they could be, but it's worth it to see your DPSers can go all out on even the most threat-sensitive fights. And when you can clear heroic botanica in 20-30 minutes, 100 badges really doesn't seem like all that much anymore. And it's great for showing off.
If you don't need to be your guild's "main tank", I highly, highly recommend going this route.
Last edited by Nobbynob Littlun : 04/29/08 at 10:15 PM.
On an unrelated topic, I noticed that Wowhead's avoidance values for things are way off. For example, going from Boots of Elusion to Blue's Greaves, it indicates I would have taken a massive hit to combined dodge/block/parry, but the opposite is true - after I equipped it and checked my combined avoidance macro, I had gone up 3%. Wowhead's values (in fact, WowWiki's, and Chicken's thread) were way off for most items I've tried, including, say, Ring of the Stalwart Protector. Anyone know what's up?
On an unrelated topic, I noticed that Wowhead's avoidance values for things are way off. For example, going from Boots of Elusion to Blue's Greaves, it indicates I would have taken a massive hit to combined dodge/block/parry, but the opposite is true - after I equipped it and checked my combined avoidance macro, I had gone up 3%. Wowhead's values (in fact, WowWiki's, and Chicken's thread) were way off for most items I've tried, including, say, Ring of the Stalwart Protector. Anyone know what's up?
The avoidance macro factors in block.
The [Boots of Elusion] have 23 Defense Rating, which works out to 9.72 Defense Skill, which works out to 1.55% uncrushability*. Adding in the 38 dodge rating, which works out to 2.01% dodge (WoWhead is accurate on this), and we get a total of 3.56% uncrushability.
When I say uncrushability, I mean miss/dodge/parry/block. This is different from avoidance, which I take as miss/dodge/parry. If we were to compute the avoidance on the [Boots of Elusion], that is, disregarding block, we would get 1.16% avoidance from the defense rating**, then another 2.01% from the dodge rating, for a total of 3.17% avoidance
The [Blue's Greaves of the Righteous Guardian] have no avoidance at all, but the 34 shield block rating, which works out to 4.31% block (again WoWhead is accurate on this), provides a total of 4.31% uncrushability, but 0% avoidance..
This gear list at Maintankadin generally has accurate totals for uncrushability across most of the available tanking gear in the game.
*To solve for that: 9.72 * 0.04 * 4 = 1.55
**To solve for that, just reduce the multiplier by 1, since block is no longer counter, as such: 9.72 * 0.04 * 3 = 1.16
Oh, I see. The tooltip on defense rating in Wowhead does not refer to the +x% dodge/block/parry/miss, but to the actual increase in Defense. Somehow I never noticed that it never had that little percent character next to the value. Thanks!
Greetings, brother. I am in a similar position as you; 5/6 SSC, 3/4 TK, 2/5 MH. Although it looks like the drops have been kinder to you
When tank survival is a problem, our guild has a couple protection warriors and a bear druid who are seriously beefed for that kind of thing. My concern is having threat in situations, whether AoE or single-target, where it is difficult or even impossible for them to do so.
Thus I went with the Shattrath Protectorate's Breastplate and, yes, Blue's Greaves of the Righteous Guardian, and I even socketed things besides Solid Stars. I always apply Superior Wizard Oil. So I always have, at minimum, around 500 spellpower. For raids, I use a Flask of either Supreme Power or Blinding Light for another 70-80 damage. For heroics, Karazhan, and Mt. Hyjal trash I switch in a few pieces for around 40 more spellpower.
I'm only just above the crushing blow threshold, and yeah, my HPs are lower than they could be, but it's worth it to see your DPSers can go all out on even the most threat-sensitive fights. And when you can clear heroic botanica in 20-30 minutes, 100 badges really doesn't seem like all that much anymore. And it's great for showing off.
If you don't need to be your guild's "main tank", I highly, highly recommend going this route.
The only problem with going this route is you're going to occasionally get your ass kicked by Abominations + others in Hyjal trash, a situation where basically only max hp is going to save you. And I think you're over-estimating how much threat gear you actually need. With ~550 spell damage buffed, I'm easily able to hold aggro against my 9/9 5/5 (0/5 SW) geared guildmates. At your level, I think that you should be able to hold aggro with much closer to 400 spell damage, as long as your AoErs aren't stupid, and give you just a couple of seconds to build some threat. (Holy wrath + 3 consecrate ticks should be more than enough).
I normally tank using the Band of the Abyssal Lord and the Ring of Sundered Souls. I've heard that the extra armor mitigation on the SotED and RotSP makes them superior to the ones I'm currently using. Is that the case, and if so, why? I thought small amounts of armor like that aren't a huge deal, and the raw stats/avoidance on my current rings are better than the two +armor rings (I'm not hit capped, so I use the Abyssal Lord ring for more threat, even though BotED has a slight edge on avoidance).
I found this post in the archives, but when I plug in my current stats I keep coming up with wacky numbers like 1hp=1.6armor, which doesn't sound right at all.
I found this post in the archives, but when I plug in my current stats I keep coming up with wacky numbers like 1hp=1.6armor, which doesn't sound right at all.
Why not? That would make the 392hp on Stalwart Protector equal to roughly 250hp of effective health, which sounds about right to me.
My comrades are my weapons, and I am their shield.
I have a couple of points that id like advice on.
I am relatively new to tanking and got pretty much all of my advice from this forum and this guide. I learnt how to spec my character and also what sort of gear/enchants I should be aiming for. My trinkets need to go and i'll be getting the darkmoon card on Monday, the commendation of kael is also a target.
I am currently sat at 390 Spell damage overall, about 13k hp but my mitigation needs improving as I take a lot of damage. My main concern though is building up threat. There is another tank in my guild with 400 spell damage and he can generate aggro like nothing I have seen, people will unleash in raids and still not pull off him.
What is a good spell rotation to take to quickly generate threat and hold it?
I have primarily played a healer for a long time ande my knowledge of which seals to use isn't great. Say I am on a boss in heroic black morass, should I judge crusader on him, vengeance then consecrate, whilst obviously leaving holy shield active on every cooldown? Would seal of righteousness be a better bet?
Tier 5 players are catching me very quickly, is it because i'm doing something wrong, or just they by far outgear me?
please feel free to criticize my enchants or gear selection from the armory link also.
Seal of Vengeance is fairly bad in *most* situations, so that's your first mistake. If you're really concerned about snap aggro, just judge Righteousness on the pull, and get Crusader up on your next Judgement cooldown. For bosses you should be using Avenger's Shield to lead off if at all possible. If you can lead off with AS, then you should probably judge Crusader right away since you already got your initial aggro lead.
Thanks appreciate the advice, SOR i should use a lot more often then, just ditch vengeance?
You can only have two seals active at the same time can't you or is this another mistake?
Basically holy shield 100% up, retribution aura on, consecrate, SOR and SOC as much as i can?
I don't think my spell damage is that bad, any other tips?
04/25/08, 9:34 AM
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