Protection and you! - Page 93

Nobbynob Littlun · 05/05/08, 11:13 PM

Verza, judgement of wisdom is really nice for running heroics (as is blessing of wisdom for that matter), and it doesn't take much spellpower to make up for JoCrusader. If you tend to run with the same healer(s), you can even train them to beat on your target for the mana restore. The caveat of course is that the other casters in your group may need to rest anyway, but in a solid group it means lots of chain pulling.

Alternatively, if your group has plenty of AoE, you can start pulling groups two at a time. Heroic Botanica is a great place to start trying this; the mobs are pretty tame, and there's lots of opportunities to turn a 5-mob pull into a 7-10 mob pull. Especially if you've got a shadow priest who can MC menders for the buff!

I know it sounds crazy, but if you can consistently do this, people get addicted to the fast runs

V-lad · 05/06/08, 12:32 AM

I seem to be able to hold aggro on infinite numbers, only problem is I take a lot of damage, how short do you think my mitigation is? Im saving up for the aldor legs 100 badges and that gives me some nice dodge and some big hp which will help. I'm 6 over the defense rating so should I invest on some dodge somewhere? Or shield block,etc

Prinsesa · 05/06/08, 1:33 AM

Originally Posted by Denogran

I've never really liked the judge/seal macros, I prefer to have control over the timing on those myself. Granted, 95% of the time I'm still hitting judge followed immediately by seal, but not every time.

I've tried doing it manually, but then I run into the problem of my muscle memory constantly waiting 1.5 seconds for the GCD before re-Sealing, even though I know I could do it right after the Judgement.

Nobbynob Littlun · 05/06/08, 3:14 AM

You could slightly alter the typical macro as such:

#showtooltip Seal of Righteousness
/cast [modifier:shift]Judgement
/stopcasting
/cast Seal of Righteousness

Thus, to have the instant judge/re-seal, hold down shift while clicking; otherwise you maintain control.
Note that if you have this macro on, say, keybind 2, then hitting shift-2 on the keyboard will also work, so long as there is nothing explicitly bound to shift-2.

Muarf · 05/06/08, 4:24 AM

Originally Posted by Nobbynob Littlun

/stopcasting

"/stopcasting" is useless now (except for actually stop a cast)

Denogran · 05/06/08, 7:00 PM

Originally Posted by Nobbynob Littlun

At the risk of resurrecting a dead horse...

Sure, I've heard "400 spellpower is enough" before, and maybe it is technically, but I have yet to reach a plateau of threat generation that our DPSers cannot outdo. Even with ~600 spellpower and opening with holy wrath plus our guild's ret paladin giving me sanctity aura (salvation on the dps need not be said), I still consistently lost aggro to our AOE'rs! Not just a few seconds in either, but a good half a minute into the fight. Generally either to the chain-seeding destruction warlocks or our built-for-AoE mage. If I'm called on to tank a single-target boss, threat is even more of an issue.

Sometimes we run into hitches, I won't deny that - specifically, abominations require some fancy moves, as you noted. My guild's consensus is that we'd run into more hitches without having me as an option for high threat tanking.

I suspect we'll be coming back to this issue when death knights are available... but let's not get to speculating on those, eh?

I think the key sentence there was a "that our DPSers cannot outdo." One of my 70 alts is a kara-geared warlock. Now if I want to, on our kara runs, I can pull aggro off a T5/6 geared feral druid who's pretty decent at threat generation, especially if the druid is working on multiple targets. Same thing goes with your dps. They need to figure out exactly how hard they can burn, and do that. If they try to pull off of you, especially in an AoE situation, they're going to. At some point, you've got to say "Good Enough..." and focus on stuff that'll keep you alive.

A little napkin math: My consecrate does ~150 a tick at 550 spell damage. So I'm putting out around 285tps on every mob in my consecrate. Locks in my guild do ~1300 Seeds every 2 seconds. So 650 dps/mob. Due to being ranged, and having salv, that'll do 1/1.3*.7 tps, or around 350 tps/mob. They don't pull aggro from me, and I'm fairly happy with where I'm at on my threat.

Does that mean I wouldn't love more spell damage? Of course not. But I think I'm in a reasonable enough place with threat that I'd rather worry about not dying. I've found that if I die in a Hyjal wave, there's a high-likelihood of a wipe, whereas if a warlock pulls aggro and dies, that likelihood is much lower. So I choose to focus on the situation that has the more dire consequences, and let my AoE dps classes watch their threat slightly.

Baalor01 · 05/07/08, 5:18 AM

Quick question guys, I have just started tanking MH/BT and started getting T6 gear etc. I was about to put a +20 spl pwr enchant on my gloves, but then noticed a number of Pally tanks in high lvl guilds use +2% threat.

Trying to do a very quick maths re this...there must be something I am missing.

By my calcs (and bear in mind I am no number cruncher by any degree) as far as I can see, given that our white dmg is so low, +20 spl pwr with the 60% increase on threat for holy is better than 2%?? Also except for white weapon dmg, doesnt spl pwr add to everything incl holy shield dmg/ ret aura/ concencrate etc??

I can only deduce that the higher the holy dmg, the more chance 2% would be better, but even on some of our highest dmg output attacks (Avenger Shield, Judement of Blood) my current damage at +500 spl dmg is around 600. So my calcs even on the highest attacks goes like this:

Threat = 600 dmg * 1.6 = 960 + 2% (19.2) = 979.20
or
Threat = 600 + 20 (chant) * 1.6 = 992

My guess is that on the smaller numbers such as the seal of blood/consecration where holy dmg is only around 50 -150 the +spl pwr gets even more nicer over 2%?? As far as I can tell, the enchant is a flat +20 - doesnt seem to say the magic "up to" which bases it on cast time (base 2.5 sec). The advantage of 2% threat is that it would incl the white dmg of weapon, but as all caster weapons which pallys use are capped at 41.2 dps, I can be lucky to get 150 dmg her hit out if it and 2% would be only +3 on that?

Which is better?

Prinsesa · 05/07/08, 5:26 AM

The 2% threat enchant is almost always better, with the exception of very low spell power situations like what you may have prior to hitting 70.

First off, you're incorrect in your accounting of Righteous Fury. It is a 90% increase in threat from Holy damage if you have the Improved talent.

Second, the +20 spell damage enchant is still subject to spell power coefficients, whereas the 2% threat enchant increases the threat of EVERYTHING, even abilities that have a 0 spell power coefficient, such as Blessing of Sanctuary, Retribution Aura or even a Shield Spike.

Baalor01 · 05/07/08, 5:37 AM

Ah...thx heaps. Ill admit, I did think that ret aura/BoS etc were also effected by +spl pwr being holy dmg. But if this is not the case, then I see the 2% accross the board will prove better.

Octopa · 05/07/08, 7:34 AM

Well, i'm calculating currently at my gear level 1 spelldamage with 0.75 to 0.9 tps depending if its a demon/undead... and thats really high. Big Thing with threat enchant is that it's scaling with your gear instead of adding just a constant number.

Mordekhuul · 05/07/08, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by Denogran

I've never really liked the judge/seal macros, I prefer to have control over the timing on those myself. Granted, 95% of the time I'm still hitting judge followed immediately by seal, but not every time.

If you work your keyboard scheme so that you have hotkeys to spare (I have 48 I can hit with my left hand in normal type position and right hand on keyboard for turning), you can have one hotkey for a judge/re-seal macro and a separate one for just judgement.

99% of the time I'm using judge/re-seal, but 1% of the time when I want to just judge and follow up with a different seal, having them separate is indeed nice.

celeritas · 05/07/08, 3:27 PM

Hello, I've been a long time reader of EJ, and a paladin since TBC. I'm interested into finally going prot to help my guild out with some tanking situations, but I'm unfamiliar with what spec to go with. Would someone be able to point me into the right direction with a solid tanking spec? (my gear is mostly comprised of t6). Thanks!

kalbear · 05/07/08, 3:28 PM

Try the first post of the first page in this threat, celeritas.

Left · 05/07/08, 3:48 PM

Actually, spec info isn't on the first page any longer. The first post has been moved to a thinktank article, but that doesn't look like it has spec info either.

The "cookie cutter" paladin tanking spec is 0/49/12, although there are certainly variations.

I personally use 0/48/13 on my paladin; others prefer to pick up reckoning in a 0/51/10 sort of build. Some people go 20/41/0 for an off-tanking/off-healing hybrid role. I've also used 13/48/0 before for an 5-man/10-man off-tank role which also allowed me to keep uninterruptable heals for casual arenas, although I don't think it's a popular one.

I'd recommend checking out the armory links of a number of people on this thread; it should give you an idea of what's out there.

celeritas · 05/07/08, 3:50 PM

Originally Posted by Left

Actually, spec info isn't on the first page any longer. The first post has been moved to a thinktank article, but that doesn't look like it has spec info either.

The "cookie cutter" paladin tanking spec is 0/49/12, although there are certainly variations.

I personally use 0/48/13 on my paladin; others prefer to pick up reckoning in a 0/51/10 sort of build. Some people go 20/41/0 for an off-tanking/off-healing hybrid role.

I'd recommend checking out the armory links of a number of people on this thread; it should give you an idea of what's out there.

Thank you.