Protection and you! - Page 94

vorda · 05/07/08, 8:01 PM

I found that I'm changing my spec depending on encounter alot these days. I do have to say I'm usually holy but respec for felmyst and m'uru.

Talents like PoJ on felmyst and imp conc aura and spell warding (if you have some decent group layout) on M'uru can make a nice difference.

Latas · 05/09/08, 1:17 AM

So I have been searching around but haven't found an answer to my questions, so i figured i would ask here.

1. How is [Reign of Misery] for prot pallys?

2. How useful is spell haste for a prot pally?

3. Is there any better prot pally weap other than [Tempest of Chaos] right now?

Salis · 05/09/08, 1:30 AM

Originally Posted by Latas

So I have been searching around but haven't found an answer to my questions, so i figured i would ask here.

1. How is [Reign of Misery] for prot pallys?

2. How useful is spell haste for a prot pally?

3. Is there any better prot pally weap other than [Tempest of Chaos] right now?

1-2. It's decent, highest spelldamage in game currently.. although lower stamina than the MH lollipop and Tempest and the spellhaste is very much useless, since it's quite impossible to get enough to make any difference.

3. No, although some prefer [Hammer of Judgement] for the higher spellhit and stamina... And the fact that your dps casters should be taking ToC.

Prinsesa · 05/09/08, 1:40 AM

Spell haste has no use for a Prot Pally, since all of our abilities have a cooldown.

You're STILL going to have a (1 sec. + latency) delay between Holy Shields no matter how fast your GCD is because any GCD reduction was already lost 10 seconds earlier. It'll help you chain your Holy Shields to your Consecrates closer, ditto with re-Sealing, but won't do much else.

Latas · 05/09/08, 1:42 AM

Originally Posted by Salis

1-2. It's decent, highest spelldamage in game currently.. although lower stamina than the MH lollipop and Tempest and the spellhaste is very much useless, since it's quite impossible to get enough to make any difference.

3. No, although some prefer [Hammer of Judgement] for the higher spellhit and stamina... And the fact that your dps casters should be taking ToC.

Ah thank you for the input, I don't suppose there is a prot pally spreadsheet floating around somewhere, is there?
Oh one more thing, is there any way to really tell how much better the [Tempest of Chaos] is for pally tanks from the next item down?

Denogran · 05/09/08, 2:03 PM

Originally Posted by Latas

Ah thank you for the input, I don't suppose there is a prot pally spreadsheet floating around somewhere, is there?
Oh one more thing, is there any way to really tell how much better the [Tempest of Chaos] is for pally tanks from the next item down?

+23 spell damage and -3 stamina from [Hammer of Judgement]. So about 11 tps for about 35 hp. Take that how you will, but personally I won't be bidding on the ToC till every lock and mage in my guild that needs one has one.

There's no spreadsheet that I know of, but there's also no single "best" gearset. I use several gearsets depending on what fight I'm doing. There's also the classic argument between avoidance and stamina, which really boils down to which you and your healers are more comfortable with. Reading the first post should give you a pretty good idea of weightings, and then you should be able to shift around your gear based on the specific encounter you're facing.

Furiousk · 05/09/08, 2:32 PM

Originally Posted by Mordekhuul

If you work your keyboard scheme so that you have hotkeys to spare (I have 48 I can hit with my left hand in normal type position and right hand on keyboard for turning), you can have one hotkey for a judge/re-seal macro and a separate one for just judgement.

99% of the time I'm using judge/re-seal, but 1% of the time when I want to just judge and follow up with a different seal, having them separate is indeed nice.

I am usually judging re-sealing 99% of the time as well. I found for those rare occasions where I need a different seal in place, using a modifier key to bypass the normal re-seal behavoir of my judgment macro works for me. I get the ease of use of a judgement/reseal macro, with the ability to bypass that behavior on demand to judge and apply any seal.

Ill dredge up the exact macro later (it uses different seals depending on what i have equipped in my MH/OH) but this is the gist of it. My thumb button on my mouse is bound to my Ctrl key, so it makes it very easy to use this functionality.

/cast judgement
/cast [nomodifier:ctrl] Seal of Righteousness

click normally for the traditional Judge/Seal behavior, click while depressing CTRL to judge only, leaving you with the option to apply any seal you wish

Russta · 05/11/08, 1:06 PM

I feel like this should be obvious to me but I can't figure out whether to make my next badge purchase [Chestguard of the Stoic Guardian] with Stamina gems, or [Chestplate of Stoicism] with a Spell Damage gem. I know the general consensus for making these sorts of decisions is to base it on your role for your guild but I'm not really in that position. Right now I'm just running heroics and squeezing myself into the odd Karazhan as offtank and spend my time worrying that my Stamina is chronically low. I can't decide whether the extra spell damage is worth losing a respectable amount of defensive stats yet wonder if that's the Warrior of two years in me talking. But then I don't know if those extra stats make it worth 25 more badges at a time where I need as many upgrades as possible...

kalbear · 05/11/08, 4:37 PM

You want [Chestguard of the Stoic Guardian]. It's the more generally useful item.

Maccam · 05/12/08, 1:41 PM

Originally Posted by kalbear

You want [Chestguard of the Stoic Guardian]. It's the more generally useful item.

I've found the reverse... even for agro considerations. I only came to this conclusion after fiddling with gear for a couple of weeks, and I don't think it's all that clear-cut even now. I think it probably depends on what gear you can mix and match to come up with an optimal mix. That being said, overall, the iLevel is higher because of a reason... it's a better item. Both of them have attributes that are right in our wheel house however.

Thalshara · 05/12/08, 1:53 PM

Does anyone have or know of any high 'shield block value' items that they swear by (besides [Item not found!] of course, that's obvious)?
I feel like my block value has dropped too low in certain situations, and want to find a few good bandaids when I'd rather get hit more, but for less damage.

kalbear · 05/12/08, 2:37 PM

I've found the reverse... even for agro considerations.

I don't see how block value is going to compare to spelldamage for threat.

It might be a higher ilvl, but that doesn't mean it's a better item for prot paladins. Block value, while good, is not in general as useful for a prot paladin as spelldamage is. The [Chestplate of Stoicism] has functionally no threat for a paladin; if gemmed with spelldamage, it has less stamina as well. It does have more avoidance and serves a purpose, but that isn't to say it's the better item for a paladin in general.

Like I said, it's the more generically useful item. It may not be ideal for tanking trash in Hyjal or kiting a fel reaver. It may not be ideal for a high-avoidance fight. But it's going to be useful everywhere and better in a lot of places that the chestplate is not.

Denogran · 05/12/08, 2:48 PM

Originally Posted by Thalshara

Does anyone have or know of any high 'shield block value' items that they swear by (besides [Item not found!] of course, that's obvious)?
I feel like my block value has dropped too low in certain situations, and want to find a few good bandaids when I'd rather get hit more, but for less damage.

The libram off Mother is awesome, and becomes even more awesome if you spec into reduced judgment times. [Tome of the Lightbringer]. Plus at your gear level, you're getting pretty close( if you haven't passed it already ) to the point where the badge libram becomes pointless.

Maccam · 05/12/08, 2:55 PM

Originally Posted by kalbear

I don't see how block value is going to compare to spelldamage for threat.

It might be a higher ilvl, but that doesn't mean it's a better item for prot paladins. Block value, while good, is not in general as useful for a prot paladin as spelldamage is. The [Chestplate of Stoicism] has functionally no threat for a paladin; if gemmed with spelldamage, it has less stamina as well. It does have more avoidance and serves a purpose, but that isn't to say it's the better item for a paladin in general.

Like I said, it's the more generically useful item. It may not be ideal for tanking trash in Hyjal or kiting a fel reaver. It may not be ideal for a high-avoidance fight. But it's going to be useful everywhere and better in a lot of places that the chestplate is not.

For heroics and aoe tanking (e.g hyjal) I find block value to be my best friend. For what it's worth, the document at the beginning of this thread states block value as the #1 thing to gear for aoe etc.... and I've found that to be true. Getting the "right" balance is an ongoing tweak as gear and situations change... but I find that [Chestplate of Stoicism] provides me room to move my gear around in such a way as to present a more optimum mix. When I have zero block value in this slot, I find myself compensating elsewhere to get it back in.... and not being as happy with the overall mix. Spell damage has its place (I generally use consumables to improve it in 25 mans)... but I'm by no means finding holding agro to be a problem (except when trying to be 2nd on the agro list as an off-tank) - gear mix ranges from about 300-600 damage and healing depending on the fight and consumables.

If you were talking about which gear to use as an Off-tank for a 25 man raid, I think I'd prefer [Chestguard of the Stoic Guardian]... but I don't find myself in those situation often enough to keep it in my bags. In main tank situations, I don't find my agro to be an issue, while survivability is always a concern, so again, i'd go with [Chestplate of Stoicism] for that role. Note that I haven't had many opportunities to MT in 25 mans so I'm not speaking from a wealth of experience in that context.

kalbear · 05/12/08, 3:11 PM

That's fair. I guess I don't tend to care about optimizing for heroics since they tend to be fairly trivial anyway; the ones that aren't are the ones that have a lot of spelldamage flying around, so BV is even less useful there.

Optimizing for Hyjal is an okay idea, but I've never seen an issue with just using a standard set. The only time I've seen our paladin die is when multiple aboms stunlocked him - and again, BV doesn't matter in that case.

If you really are just concerned about hyjal and heroics, I'd agree. [Chestplate of Stoicism] is better. I just don't think that the gain there is worth the loss in general.