Retribution DPS Theorycraft - Page 100

Rasputin · 02/24/08, 10:31 PM

I really enjoy the changes to the spreadsheet so far, but it does seem to be giving me some odd results under item analysis. For example, I put in my current gear and I get results like the [Grips of Silent Justice] being superior to the [Vengeful Gladiator's Scaled Gauntlets], or [Girdle of the Endless Pit] being superior to [Red Belt of Battle], or [Band of the Eternal Champion] being superior to [Unstoppable Aggressor's Ring]. Are these results due to some change in calculation methods in the new version? These results don't match those of previous versions, so I'm curious if it's due to a refinement in calculations or something else.

Edit: I re-ran analysis and got results more closely in line to what I was expecting. It seems like pressing any key while the calculation is running will cause errors, including alt-tabbing away from the spreadsheet. Sometimes it will cause all results to be the exact same result(such as all items being -6.95 DPS from all slots).

• Avitus · 02/24/08, 11:44 PM

Originally Posted by Mox

I find it highly amusing that you compare the enhancement shaman tier 6 set

Shh dumbass, if you notice I listed "all" dps sets of all classes. Your set bonus might also be one of the worst, but at least it's not as non-existent as ours.

Whether you choose to wear it or not is irrelevant really.

Keep in mind the new T6 belt/wrist/boots. Are you sure you're not going to wear 1 piece of your old T6 to get the set bonus?

I know the majority of dps classes will, except ret paladins. And if you won't, why make your class which is the exception to the rule the reason our class set bonus shouldn't get fixed?

The simple fact the set bonus exists is an insult really (devs had no idea what they're doing), it's probably of the same "wtf value" as if they had put "increases ghost wolf melee damage by 5%" on your enhancement set.

Anyway, don't bother with Moxye, he's just bored and likes to feed off other peoples drama :P

• Avitus · 02/25/08, 12:01 AM

Oh btw, grats on 100 pages, I remember looking at this forum and wondering when there'd ever be a ret dps thread

Bellator love the new spreadsheet, especially the upgraded item analysis, great work as always

Any chance we can get race selection implemented at some point (mainly for human racial going towards the expertise cap).

• Anarkii · 02/25/08, 12:10 AM

While we're still discussing the spreadsheet, how hard would it be to implement an "import from armory" functionality, Bellator? Probably you could reuse some of the code written in the Hunter/Rogue spreadsheets for that mechanism.

Dannethkilm · 02/25/08, 2:49 AM

Originally Posted by flyingtoastr

Oh, I misunderstood. You're entirely correct of course.

Even as miserably inefficient as it is, Hammer of Wrath does provide the largest "bang for the buck" when the boss is nearing death (and is still more efficient than Rank VI Conseration, the only other viable alternative for a mana dump). Its overall DPS at <20% is much larger than Consecration (and with the additional bonus that it can crit and takes melee hit/crit it has even more going for it). It is the same idea as a mage spamming Arcane Blast: dump every ounce of mana you have into pure damage because anything you have left over is a waste. I really think the original design for the ability was centered around this idea: heavy mana cost, big damage, only when a foe is low on health.

Are there things that could use more attention? Of course. It really would be nice to get a viable finisher though as an alternative to our odd "single target AoE" thing we always have going on.

Hammer of Wrath is too situational. The only times I use it are during:
A'lar fights
Kethalas - floating in the air, keeping your space, throw hammers.
Supremus - get punted, throw a hammer
Things that charge randomly

I personally like the holy hammer of death idea, but its too situational to be put into a set piece. If anything, the t6 set bonus should be reverted to the t4 set bonus, [Justicar Breastplate]. The people/person who made the t4 set bonuses knew what they were doing back when crusader strike was spell damage orientated as well. Get that bastard back. Not the 10% to hammer of wrath...

little_ramona · 02/25/08, 4:37 AM

A quick thanks to Bellator for all his hard work and for version 33. I'm am also seeing some strange results however. For example, [Jagged Bark Pendant] is listed as an upgrade for [Haramad's Bargain]. Just a heads up.

Siral · 02/25/08, 4:59 AM

but only for me all the functions of bellator's spreadsheet doesn't work?

i abilitate the macro but everytime i try to use a function of the spreadsheet i got a message error and excel move me in the debug mode.

Anyone can help me?

Liono · 02/25/08, 5:54 AM

I've always had the problem that I cant run the item analysis part of bellators spreadsheet. Its a shame but I kind of just accept it

For the record I've always errored in Public Sub Item_Calc()
on the line DataOption1:=xlSortNormal

It tells me that "Named Argument not found"

Still love the sheet though for the graph and for the strength equivalency stuff. Pleased to see Romulos poison vial in this version since I've been using it for ages... is the proc modelled into it though? It contributes to my overall DPS and certainly has an impact!

Kris · 02/25/08, 5:56 AM

For Bellator:
http://domain1745759.sites.fasthosts...Kris/Sheet.JPG

It's not only giving weird results, like Mithril Band of the Unscarred better than Unstoppable Aggressors Ring, it also completely forgets about some items, like Crown of Anasterian.

bellator · 02/25/08, 6:49 AM

Hi Guys,

Coulple of things couple of repies:-

1) For every who is getting weird results such as Jagged Bark Pendant being listed as better than Haramad's Bargain, can you please take a screenshot of the analyis (and ideally of the character sheet) and post it here. The reason being i have checked numerous of these oddities, and its not due to incorrect stats, nor is there any changes to the way that the calculations are being run (except for the new gemming of hit then strength) and i've been unable to replicate any of them. I need to some of the output to figure out whats going wrong. Thanks

Originally Posted by Ysabelle

Still noticing a bug when I analyze, all my gems get replaced with 10str and I have to reload my gear set every time.

I knew there was something I forgot to add. The Item Analysis currently does not reload the gems you had selected before running the analysis will add this in the next version.

Originally Posted by Rasputin

Edit: I re-ran analysis and got results more closely in line to what I was expecting. It seems like pressing any key while the calculation is running will cause errors, including alt-tabbing away from the spreadsheet. Sometimes it will cause all results to be the exact same result(such as all items being -6.95 DPS from all slots).

Pressing the Escape key does cause the code to stop running (this is Excel not me). Pressing other keys or alt tabbing shoulsnt have effects such as causing the exact same results. Please can you post a screenshot of this.

Originally Posted by Anarkii

While we're still discussing the spreadsheet, how hard would it be to implement an "import from armory" functionality, Bellator? Probably you could reuse some of the code written in the Hunter/Rogue spreadsheets for that mechanism.

Pff, the spreadsheet calculates all possible upgrades, produces nice shiny graphs, and you're to lazy to even enter the data :p I'm joking of course. However my VB coding knowledge is very limited. However this feature does sound cool. Can you link one of these spreadsheets and i'll take a look at how it works and hopefully get it included.

Siral, Liono,

What versions of Excel are you using. I'm using 2003 to code it and there are issues with other versions running it. This is down to the way coding has changed between the versions, but unfortunately my knowledge of what coding is generic to all versions etc is very limited.

Liono, if you go into the VB code into "Module 1" and delete the followin 3 lines, then the analysis wont sort the items for you, but it might work

Range(TheOutput.Offset(1, 0), TheOutput.Offset(Row - 1, 5)).Sort Key1:=TheOutput.Offset(1, 1), Order1:=xlAscending, Header:=xlGuess, _
OrderCustom:=1, MatchCase:=False, Orientation:=xlTopToBottom, _
DataOption1:=xlSortNormal"

Originally Posted by Kris

it also completely forgets about some items, like Crown of Anasterian.

This is an error in the database. Crown of Anasterian is listed under "user added" not "sunwell". Select user added as yes in the filter for this item to show. Will fix it in the next version

bellator · 02/25/08, 6:52 AM

Hope you dont mind me doing a new post for this. I have a requests for you guys.

In the next version or two I will be adding a race selection tool. However as i only have a dwarf paladin I only know the base stats for a naked untalented level 70 dwarf. I need this for human and blood elf too. So if anyone doesnt mind getting naked forgetting their talents and posting them here it would be helpful. Cheers

Valerys · 02/25/08, 7:02 AM

Hey Bellator, thanks for the new sheet. I noticed a bug, [Girdle of Seething Rage] has strength and stamina switched, thus making it look better than it actually is.

Valerys · 02/25/08, 7:22 AM

Checked out the weapons again with the new sheet. [Shivering Felspine] is showing as second-best SoB weapon after Apolyon, beating [The Blade of Harbingers] by about 10 dps. I think some hunters should expect competition.

So in other words, 2.4 is basically introducing three new amazing SoB weapons (don't know how they rank for SoC).

Liono · 02/25/08, 7:27 AM

Liono, if you go into the VB code into "Module 1" and delete the followin 3 lines, then the analysis wont sort the items for you, but it might work

That fixed it.. Thanks bellator.. the spreadsheet just became even better from my PoV

I'm using Excel 2000 for my sins, proving nicely that my place of work is hideously outdated...

Killmour · 02/25/08, 7:34 AM

I don't know if you guys have checked MMO-Champion - World of Warcraft Guides and Raid Strategies in the last little bit, but it appears that they are removing spell damage from the last vestige of the pre-raid plate gear.

Here's to hoping for Seal of Blood on alliance.

Aramul · 02/25/08, 8:20 AM

Humans:
Health - 4397
Strength - 126
Agility - 77
Stamina - 120
Intellect - 83
Spirit - ~89 (base+racial is 97)

Draenei:
Strength - 127
Agility - 74
Stamina - 119
Intellect - 84
Spirit - 91

Blood Elf:
Strength - 123
Agility - 79
Stamina - 118
Intellect - 87
Spirit - 88

bellator · 02/25/08, 8:40 AM

A number of people have mentioned that they are getting some odd analysis results.

I have figured out why this is occuring, and will release a new version this evening with this correction.

In the mean time to prevent odd results, just prior to running any analyses, go into the Character screen and press the "Socket HitCap".

Will get the new version out asap.

Regards

bellator · 02/25/08, 8:48 AM

Aramul,

I don't surpose you have a base value for Mana, AP, Crit and Spell Crit?

Volrath50 · 02/25/08, 9:55 AM

I'm hoping this is the right place to put this, as it relates to ret raiding.

I'm looking for a mod that would show the judgements on a mob, and how long they have left on them. Preferably in a shrinking bar format, like Warlocks often use for their debuffs. This would be very helpful on fights with movement, so I can be sure I get in a crusader strike before JoW and JoL fall off.

I think I've seen something like this in a video one time, maybe of Gurtogg Bloodboil.

DarKNecross · 02/25/08, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by Volrath50

I'm hoping this is the right place to put this, as it relates to ret raiding.

I'm looking for a mod that would show the judgements on a mob, and how long they have left on them. Preferably in a shrinking bar format, like Warlocks often use for their debuffs. This would be very helpful on fights with movement, so I can be sure I get in a crusader strike before JoW and JoL fall off.

I think I've seen something like this in a video one time, maybe of Gurtogg Bloodboil.

You can just use Quartz's Target Buff bar to show your Judgement on the mob. Your Judgement will end up lasting the same amount of time as everyone else's assuming you've landed a Crusader Strike.

bellator · 02/25/08, 10:28 AM

Hey Guys, Updated model for you:-

jwhalley Profile, jwhalley Details - FileFront.com

Changes:-

Weird behavious of Item Analysis in V33 (where some items were incorrectly being reported as better than items they were clearly not better than) has been fixed and shouldn't occur

Running the Item Analysis will no longer overwrite the gem setup you have in the character screen.

The base dodge change of a boss has been increases to 6.5%. It was previously 5.6%

The "Base Information" box on the character screen now is clickable and you can select Dwarf/Human/Draenai/BloodElf.

The base information stats take into account:-
Humans Expertise (and takes into account the type of weapon equipped - highlights some interesting weapon choice based on race issues)
Draenais Heroic Prescence
Blood Elves Arcane torrent
Dwarves Find Treasure (ok, well it doesnt take into account this)

The base Crit/SpCrit/Health/Mana/AP for all but dwarves it calculated on other information provided. It may not be exactly correct. Feedback on these numbers appreciated.

Shadowmoon Destroyers Cloak correctly appears under the Tempest Keep filter

Crown of Anasterian correctly appears under the Sunwell filter

DarKNecross · 02/25/08, 11:22 AM

I have a question regarding the item comparisons. Does the comparison compare your current item versus other items without taking sockets into consideration? If it does take sockets into consideration, does it compare both items assuming they are using Bold Crimson Spinels, or your current gems?

• Anarkii · 02/25/08, 11:41 AM

It takes sockets into consideration using the auto-hitcap method. So if you're comparing 2 chests with 3 sockets each - for each item, it'll compute your total hit rating and if you're below the cap, it'll socket it with hit gems till you reach the cap and fill the rest with spinels.

Merple · 02/25/08, 11:48 AM

One thing that would be really nice in a later version is a "I can't access BT gems" box that will use blue gems instead of epics. Anyone short of T6 can't make use of the gemming buttons.

flyingtoastr · 02/25/08, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by bellator

Aramul,

I don't surpose you have a base value for Mana, AP, Crit and Spell Crit?

For a human:

Mana: 3918
AP: 442
Melee Crit: 3.17%
Spell Crit: 4.37%

Melee Crit is low because I'm only 336 unarmed, so I'm not too sure if its right or not.