Volrath50 : Dfilter is very nice for that. You will be able to highlights some debuffs on your target, such as JoW JoL JotC. It does buffs as well, pretty handy.
By the way, if anyone knows how to get it to show the Windfury totem buff, I'll be gratefull.

And as usual, thanks bellator for the quick ss update!

I think it would be a good idea to put the boomkin's improved faerie fire on the spreadsheet somewhere. It's an incredibly useful talent and although most guilds don't take advantage of what a boomkin can offer, it'd be nice to have the option on the spreadsheet.

There's something that I'm a bit confused about, from reading various posts here. It seems that people are talking about CS being on the GCD from using a Judgment right before it. But... Judgment doesn't trigger the GCD, does it? Or are they talking about the seal refresh putting CS on the GCD?

Judging without refreshing the seal most definitely means a dps loss and is not recommended unless you're a computer and can time your hits perfectly.

It's as you say. Judging does not incur the GCD, but the seal refresh will. Most people have a macro that judges and refreshes at once hence their reference to judging causing the GCD.

Looks like v34 fixed the item analysis for me. Thanks Bellator.


On to macros,
I notice alot of ppl using the following:
/castsequence reset=10 judgement, Seal of Blood, Crusader Strike, Crusader Strike, Judgement, Seal of Blood, Crusader Strike

The thing that baffles me about this one is the reset is too low and forces it to restart the sequence before the whole sequence is finished. I figured it to be about 13.5 seconds or so to complete. If the reset is at 10 it will restart prior to the last CS and reduce your dps as opposed to increase it. I currently use a 15 reset on mine and it has been working great.

The reset occurs if you pass 10 seconds without a spell firing. You're expecting it to reset at 10 seconds no matter what, which, you're right, would be annoying.

Or you can wait to judge until your GCD is up, hit your macro, and not have to even worry about it.

The DPS loss from judging 1.5 seconds later is very small, and its much safer just to wait.

Got it. I guess I had a different understanding about the reset time. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Not a big deal, but I noticed on the spread sheet, the choices you can select from the drop down menu for Sanctified Judgement are 0 and 3. In your next release, could you add in a option for 1 and 2. I wanted to check out how much mana I would lose by selecting 2 instead of 3 Sanctified Judgement talent points. thx!

Love the new spreadsheet Bellator. I found one thing that puzzled me; when I change the Seal from Command to Blood my AP changes, is this correct? I have never used SoB so I'm not sure if it does change your AP.

Eh, it's BT loot ;/

Hmm, im a noob when it comes to macros...with regards to the above macro, how does it exactly work?Does hitting it just one time will cast all those spells at once or do i have to spam it?

Cast sequence macros are exactly as the name says, a sequence, when you hit it the first time it will cast the first spell, when you hit it next time it will cast the next one, etc, etc....

The timer on the reset means that after 10 seconds even if you didn't cast the last spell in the sequence, it will reset.

If you actually make a cast sequence like people are suggesting you would be able to just hit 1 button all day and just spam it rather than actually having to play.

Actually I've had several situations where only 2 of the 3 judgments were refreshed. Sometimes one of the 3 judgments just falls off a few seconds after a successful Crusader Strike, while the other 2 remain (my own judgment and one other) or the 3rd judgment just doesn't get refreshed while the other 2 do. I'm currently blaming it on latency as I've only seen it occur a few times, but it's definitely annoying when it happens.

Just get Demon. Set it up for the 3 Judgements, and you can tell when any of them fall off. Problem solved.

Hahahaha! That's funny.

I have a question, that's probably already talked about in some of these pages somewhere, but I'd rather not spend the night sifting through 100 pages :P

Anyway. How would you guys rank your potential group members in relation to DPS gained from buffs given? I know obviously Enh Shammies are number one, but after that I'm not too sure. I've never really played any of them other than warriors and don't even know what half the group buffs on Bellator's sheet are. Let alone where they come from.

From what I've observed, I gain about 200DPS by having a Shaman in the group. Does this sound right? And if you guys know off hand, about how much does every other class give, for you, in real raiding?

The other night my group was a Hunter, Rogue, Druid, and Shaman. And I did more DPS that night than I have yet. We usually have 2 rogues in the group. Sometimes it's even three Rogues, me and a druid, when that happens, I almost think that I'd be better off somewhere else... What do you guys think?

Where can I find this mod? I looked all over and couldnt seem to find it. I had looked several times for a mod that could do this. Would be great to finally have that instead of always having to watch the debuffs

Most preferrable member is a shaman. Not only because he gives the best dps buffs, but also WF scales with gear. Second best is a warrior, though BS gives a much better AP boost at t4 than at t6 level, percentage based.

WoWAce Directory:
World of Warcraft Addons - WowAce.com

If you want the direct download link:
http://files.wowace.com/Demon/Demon-r54777.37.zip

Hi. I've been a long time reader of this thread, and I've come in to a large dilemma. The problems I'm encountering I haven't really observed in this thread yet in detail.


I'm trying to crunch numbers on the effectiveness of Armor Pen vs Haste. I clearly fail at math, and am only able to do basic formulas so I'm having trouble coming to grips with the numbers. I pretty much just want to know if Armor Pen is better than Haste Rating (Which the general consensus is no) - BUT if it is, how much armor pen would it take for it to outdo the latter?

If this has been brought up before, I sincerely apologize. I have not seen it in any sort of depth in this thread.


A thank you in advance for all you mathematically adept Retribution Paladins.




Oh, one other note - I'm a Blood Elf, so take SoB in to account instead of SoC if you feel brave enough to tackle this.

I think that's due to debuffs being knocked off by your raid spamming too many debuffs rather than CS bugging out, at least that would be my guess.

Was it a 25 man raid? And how many lock/warriors/shadowpriests etc did you have?



Along the "teach a man to fish > give a man a fish" motto:

If you're confused where something comes from, just go to Wowhead: Thrall-tested, Jaina-approved. (or WOWDB: The next generation World of Warcraft database) and type it into the search there.

It will show you what the spell is, what class has it and under what spec.

Example, if you search for "Blood Frenzy" in wowhead:

blood frenzy - Wowhead Search

Then click on the highest rank of the spell should give you a nice breakdown of cast time, proc chance, cost etc. if it applies to this spell as well as a clear heading:

Database > Spells > Talents > Warrior > Arms



Anyway, regarding what's better than what, it really depends on the other people's specs as well as your own personal DPS.

Imp BS is always a solid buff, but things like Ferocious Inspiration (3% damage, BM hunter) and other damage multipliers get better the higher your personal DPS is.

Same thing with LotP (5% crit) though that comes with the minor drawback of reducing your mana gain since heals from crits count as your own heals and therefore don't gain from Spiritual Attunement.


I suggest you pick up the spreadsheet and wowhead and try to selectively check each ability on and off to see what benefits you the most

(Yea shaman is a no brainer.)