Retribution DPS Theorycraft - Page 101

SomeoneRandom · 01/15/08, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by Tekzor

A question I’ve had in my mind for a while has been what the positive and negative aspects of weapon switching to take advantage of multiple weapon enchants would be. I use a Torch of the Damned with mongoose currently, but I was playing around with a Soul Cleaver with executioner and noticed that I could get both procs up at the same time. [Using Soul Cleaver instead of my Torch in a raid situation would probably reduce any gains noticed from the enchant procs, but if I grabbed a second Torch and put executioner on it…] GCD from weapon switch may be an issue, but since I will have to manage that manually, it should be avoidable. Has anyone tried this out before and was there any appreciable difference?

I know Mages used to use a blade of wizardry and swap it on, I imagine you could do the same with something like this... It would probably net you a decent amount of DPS... on the spreadsheet going from no weapon enchant to executioner is a gain of 22 DPS for me, which isn't all that bad considering, but if you mess up with swapping weapons and reset a swing timer it might ruin all the benefit.

CunningB · 01/15/08, 11:20 AM

EDIT: I'm updating the JoW list and I need one quick tidbit of info from you guys. Can SoC and SoB procs in turn proc JoW? Some of the people on the WoW forums are saying they can, which would result in a pretty sizable Mp5 increase, but I trust you guys more then them. Anyone have a combatlog or such that supports/refutes this?

Im pretty sure with the Ret paladin i'm currently leveling i've seen JoW proc off SoC extra attacks, it appears as 2 entrys in a row in both the combat log and on SCT with the same timecodes, although I used addon based combat log and SCT so theres a small chance of it being lag.

Gormal · 01/15/08, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by Avitus

Well, looting the axe is a given and not really optional, don't think you'd be meleeing without it.

Still, according to my guild's calculations, I'd have to be pushing 2500 DPS with salv and 30% thread reduction from talents to pull aggro off our warrior MT in most average fights.

With legendary axe and all, you would need to be using all cooldowns, have a stacked group and pretty much the best gear in game if you want to hope to achieve that number (my best so far at teron was 1950 sustained DPS in a stacked group, 1750 in a normal group with just enh sham and war) and somehow I doubt it still.

What sorta TPS does your MT pump out?

Early in P4 all of our tanks seem to lack the rage to really put out a lot of threat, but they're normally just fine. Last time I pulled aggro was right after the first shield and I'd used Bloodlust Brooch and AW and just wasn't watching my threat. Once we leave to kill a couple eggs, its not an issue anymore. My highest sustained dps so far has been 1800 on Teron, so with cooldowns including Shaman bloodlust and the axe, I'd say that its perfectly feasible for me to be bursting well over 2k for that short period of time. I don't run live damage meters so I can't tell for sure, it could just be our tanks slacking but our arms warrior has the same problem.

bellator · 01/15/08, 12:49 PM

Hi Guys,

Just a quick note to let you know I have seen a number of questions regarding the spreadsheet etc. I have been and am still away on business this week with extremely limited access to the internet and thus the forums. I promise I have read the posts and will reply when i'm back this weekend and have more time.

CunningB · 01/15/08, 1:27 PM

Just did a quick play about to see if I could get a dual JoW proc off a SoC and the gods of chance were favouring me, this is from the normal blizzard combat log so hopefully no issue with addon lag

Not sure how this would affect the mana gain calculations from it though, might be as much as anoth 10% onto of the current listed gain thought

flyingtoastr · 01/15/08, 1:51 PM

Thanks Cunning, thats just what I needed.

Assuming 8 PPM for SoC gives you an extra 4 procs of JoW per minute, that's another ~25 Mp5.

Now I just need one of you cute Blood Elf pallys to give me SoB info.

Theras · 01/15/08, 2:06 PM

So, does anybody know of any mobs that are:

1) Immune to Vindication...

2) Will do less damage than a heal every 15 seconds from a Shaman alt, and...

3) Have a very high amount of health, infinite health, or heal themselves?

I went afk punching a Servant in the Blasted Lands last night, and got some odd Judgement of Wisdom results over my two hour log (54% proc rate using only auto attack and one point in Vindication). I'd like to test it on a Vindication immune target to see if that affects the proc rate at all, and I'm also going to go back to the Blasted Lands and get an 8 hour log before posting definitive results.

Lars · 01/15/08, 2:09 PM

Originally Posted by Theras

So, does anybody know of any mobs that are:

1) Immune to Vindication...

2) Will do less damage than a heal every 15 seconds from a Shaman alt, and...

3) Have a very high amount of health, infinite health, or heal themselves?

I went afk punching a Servant in the Blasted Lands last night, and got some odd Judgement of Wisdom results over my two hour log (54% proc rate using only auto attack and one point in Vindication). I'd like to test it on a Vindication immune target to see if that affects the proc rate at all, and I'm also going to go back to the Blasted Lands and get an 8 hour log before posting definitive results.

I'm not sure if they are immune to Vindication or not, but the Halaa guards have an insane amount of health and barely do any damage.

Sheltim · 01/15/08, 2:45 PM

Originally Posted by Gormal

Early in P4 all of our tanks seem to lack the rage to really put out a lot of threat, but they're normally just fine. Last time I pulled aggro was right after the first shield and I'd used Bloodlust Brooch and AW and just wasn't watching my threat. Once we leave to kill a couple eggs, its not an issue anymore. My highest sustained dps so far has been 1800 on Teron, so with cooldowns including Shaman bloodlust and the axe, I'd say that its perfectly feasible for me to be bursting well over 2k for that short period of time. I don't run live damage meters so I can't tell for sure, it could just be our tanks slacking but our arms warrior has the same problem.

Unrelated to the topic at hand, I checked your Armory profile (I put my first points into Ret, ever, last night...) and noticed you have the Libram of Divine Judgement. Were you grinding just before logging out or is there another reason you aren't using SOBlood?

Yes, I've read the thread and know that SOBlood should outdps SOCommand, even with the LODJ, which is why I'm asking.

noth · 01/15/08, 2:53 PM

Originally Posted by Sheltim

Unrelated to the topic at hand, I checked your Armory profile (I put my first points into Ret, ever, last night...) and noticed you have the Libram of Divine Judgement. Were you grinding just before logging out or is there another reason you aren't using SOBlood?

Yes, I've read the thread and know that SOBlood should outdps SOCommand, even with the LODJ, which is why I'm asking.

looks like he's in PvP gear... often horde palis use seal of command for PvP because of the higher potential burst.

• Shalas · 01/15/08, 2:55 PM

Originally Posted by Tekzor

A question I’ve had in my mind for a while has been what the positive and negative aspects of weapon switching to take advantage of multiple weapon enchants would be. I use a Torch of the Damned with mongoose currently, but I was playing around with a Soul Cleaver with executioner and noticed that I could get both procs up at the same time. [Using Soul Cleaver instead of my Torch in a raid situation would probably reduce any gains noticed from the enchant procs, but if I grabbed a second Torch and put executioner on it…] GCD from weapon switch may be an issue, but since I will have to manage that manually, it should be avoidable. Has anyone tried this out before and was there any appreciable difference?

The main problem is that swapping weapons resets your swing timer. You're only looking at gains of around 10 DPS (significantly under the 22 dps for full-time Executioner due to that you'd only have Executioner equipped when Mongoose is up), which even ignoring GCD issues would probably be less than the dps you'd lose to swing timer resets.

You'd also probably just want two identical weapons with Mongoose to swap between, as Mongoose from different weapons stacks.

Shalymar · 01/15/08, 3:27 PM

Originally Posted by bellator

Hi Guys,

Just a quick note to let you know I have seen a number of questions regarding the spreadsheet etc. I have been and am still away on business this week with extremely limited access to the internet and thus the forums. I promise I have read the posts and will reply when i'm back this weekend and have more time.

DPS Spreadsheet Bug:

The Khorium Champion shows a +hit of 27, it should be +37.

Gormal · 01/15/08, 3:45 PM

I spent a few minutes outside of shatt with JoW on some wolves and didn't get a single JoW proc from SoB. I did get procs off JoB, however.

grayrest · 01/15/08, 3:48 PM

Originally Posted by flyingtoastr

Now I just need one of you cute Blood Elf pallys to give me SoB info.

I decided that this was a good excuse to get my 2h axes up. I was unabled to get a double proc going from pounding on the blasted lands mobs from skill 300 to skill 325. Considering SoB hits on every swing, I find it unlikely that I wouldn't see anything in a couple hundred attacks. For grins (and so I could pay less attention) I switched to SoL with the same results from 325-330. In switching to SoC at 330, I saw two double JoW procs in the first three SoC procs.

Edit: I did notice the IED proc off a vindication (I wear my heal set when doing this), but that's about the only thing of note.

• Zurm · 01/15/08, 4:14 PM

Originally Posted by Gormal

I spent a few minutes outside of shatt with JoW on some wolves and didn't get a single JoW proc from SoB. I did get procs off JoB, however.

Confirmed, SoB does NOT proc JoW.

Proof

I expect the reason is because SoB procs every hit TWICE... once on the mob, once on yourself.