Just when we thought that [Hard Khorium Battlefists] were going to solve our problems with having to PvP for PvE gear...

[Brutal Gladiator's Greatsword]

Link doesn't appear to be active yet, but here's the rundown:

I'm getting about 9 DPS more than Apolyon, the Soul-render with Seal of Command. Not to mention the 21 hit rating will allow you to resocket two of the hit rating gems in your gear to Spinels or Pyrestones, making the upgrade even more devastating. Too bad it's going to have a 2000 Personal Rating requirement, since I'm pretty damned awful at PvP.

I can't download the spreadsheet from FileFront. Asked 2-3 friends to try as well and they all get the same error:

There was an error processing your request; it appears to be invalid or there was an error with your conection. Please wait while your request is retried...

If you need further help with a download, please contact FileFront support.

Is it hosted anywhere else?

If anyone wants to contribute to this topic (original post) please send all stuff to me in PM and I will add them. I bought house on january and Im renovating it so I cant follow up on everything. Just compile what you find necesary, throw it as PM to me and I will add it.

Did you remember to add sockets to Apolyon? The current version of the spreadsheet does not have the 3 red sockets (already PMed bella).

Without the sockets, S4 sword is ahead, with the 3 sockets (=30 str) Apolyon is ahead by ~20 DPS.

Still pretty small difference, depending on where my guild is at when S4 hits, I might be getting the S4 sword/mace until Apolyon.



Oh and unless there's a change which I missed, weapons only require 1850 rating, not 2k, at least that's how it's in s3 atm.

Though 2k isn't that hard if you get a good warrior/rogue and a druid/resto shammy and that's coming from my experience on cyclone battlegroup (EU), other bgs should be a cakewalk.

Well considering that you will need to be socketing for hit in full SWP gear somewhere, you can consider the hit rating on the S4 sword as 2 more spinels somewhere else in your gear instead of 2 lionseyes. In effect, this reduces the effective difference between the two by 1 socket. So the difference is 10 strength, which puts the two swords nearly even (for SoC) by my calculations.

If S4 launches with 2.4 that is going to be the weapon of choice for Alliance (and it has armor penetration instead of haste, yum). If we all clear SWP before we get a crack at the new PvP gear then it might be an even tossup.

I agree, this would be very nice. I'm in the same situation and wonder if the spreadsheet might be overvaluing socketed items slightly.

Thanks for the racial selection; it's very handy.

Another neat option might be to allow for BoE craftables but not BoP ones.

Ok, I should rephrase it a bit I suppose. If you use strictly best-in-slot gear from SWP (not BoP crafted stuff) you will be only getting 40 hit rating from gear (23 from [Hard Khorium Battlefists] and 17 from [Shadowmoon Destroyer's Drape]). From there you can either "downgrade" gear to BT/Hyjal stuff to get more hit rating or socket for gems.

Using just the best-in-slot gear leaves you with having to find 56 more hit rating. By using the S4 Sword over Apolyon you gain 21 more hit rating, leaving only 35 more hit rating to get elsewhere on gear.

I've found a bug in the current spreadsheet. If I click anywhere at all while calculations are running, even on empty space or the scroll bar, it starts calculating all items the same. Tabbing out is fine and it's easily avoided by just letting it run, but I thought I'd mention it.

I'm running Office Excel 2007.

I believe bellator has said it's a bug in office & there's nothing he can do about it? It was mentioned a few pages ago, at least. My solution has been to completely leave Parallels while it runs, but that probably won't help you.

What gear are you using that's best-in-slot? Whenever I did the spreadsheet I was getting most of the Leather ArmorPen gear, and was able to get hit-capped without much problem. My HDD crashed last weekend and I haven't had a chance to reinstall Excel and take another look, however.

I never use leather, I'm talking about best-in-slot plate. My guild's rogues get first priority, then druids, then enhancement shamans, then everyone else, so I never even consider them for potential upgrades. The leather gear has hit on it (obviously) because rogues need it in large amounts. If you look at SWP plate gear the is an absolute dearth of hit rating, which means you're going to either have to use older gear or socket [Rigid Lionseye] in a lot of places. But hey, if your guild lets you bid against rogues more power to you, you'll be easily hit capped.

On another gear-related note, the stats for the S4 ret gear is also out (here) and the gloves have retained the bonus, meaning we won't be seeing that on our T6 again.

Got a lot of PMs regarding test Rawr - so I'll just put it up here. I'll make a detailed post later on how to use it, but for now this will do :
1. Start up Rawr, ensuring that the Retribution model is selected under the models menu.
2. Check that the armory is working fine, and Load your character from armory (You can skip this step if you want to manually select each item and enchant)
3. Depending on your connection speed, wait a bit while Rawr downloads your character details and the icons for each item if its not cached already.
4. Go to the enchants tab and verify that your enchants have been selected properly. Most of the enchants are in the cache, but a few might be missing.
5. Go to the Buffs tab and select all the buffs and debuffs that you want (Remember to select Sunder Armor and such, people often take it for granted)
6. Go to the Options tab and select Boss Armor and Skill Usage. Don't change the target level for now - it's assumed to be 73.
7. You can go back to the main tab to see the DPS breakdowns now and the comparison sheet at the right should be functional. You can compare items for each slot, you can compare buffs etc

Some stuff which is not implemented yet :

1. Blood Frenzy debuff
2. Some trinket procs and special bonuses(S3 gloves etc)
3. Configurable talents - A standard 5/8/48 build is assumed for now
4. Stat comparison based on itemization point cost.
5. Selecting Target Level
6. More Custom Charts
7. Some things I cant remember right now!

You can add any item you find missing manually. (In the final version, I'll of course have all the relevant items in the cache)
1. Goto Tools->Edit Items->Add..
2. If the item exists on Live, simply enter the id and it'll download the item for you
3. If it's a new item on PTR and it doesnt exist in the cache, enter the id, you'll get an error and it'll ask if you want to add the item manually. Select Yes and carefully fill in the details.

You can gem each item manually if you feel like by right clicking and editing it.

Remember to save your character after doing all this the first time so that you don't have to download and select all the options again. The next time you can simply load up your character.

Also remember that this is a very early version not intended for public release. So if you aren't confident of what to do if a program crashes and such, please wait for the final release version.

Just a quick update - Stat comparison based on itemization point cost and Configurable talents have been completed. I'll put up that version tomorrow.

I've noticed that I'm getting an invalid attachment message when trying to grab the zip file. I'm not sure what other methods that people generally use here to upload/store files, but it seems the EJ forums doesn't like the zip files.

I'm eagerly waiting to try this out and show it to the people in my guild.

Thanks for your hard work!

I've been reading through parts of this thread, and doing some searches, but i can't seem to find out whether it is better to use a Haste Potion or Insane Strength pot during your BloodLust + Avenging Wrath + trinket whatever else you can cram in burst.

Its probably in here somewhere, but after 4 post searches and some random page reads, i can't seem to find it and reading 100+ pages isn't really feasable for me sadly.

Is there a way to config bellator's SS to evaluate this or just a set rule?

Haste potion

i think the question at hand here is if you're already attacking at double speed (heroism/bloodlust), you might think that instead of 1 extra swing from the haste pot, you'd rather have 240 ap on double the amount of normal swings (and a few CS in the potion window). i actually have not seen someone consider this situation, and its very much different than the standard "haste is better".

Haste potion.

(Rough napkin math, don't trust it too much)

Assuming you're using a 3.8 speed weapon (2.66 with Bloodlust/Heroism) with Divine Strength and Kings you'll be looking at 288 AP from the insane Strength potion, or an increase of ~78 on each of your white hits. In the 15 seconds you have the pot you'll get in 5.6 autoattacks, so in most cases it will be 5 swings, 2 CS, and maybe 2-3 SoC procs. That is a total of 670-724 extra damage.

A haste pot gives you an extra autoswing. Your autoswing should be hitting harder than 670.

You don't really need to consider it, since Haste scales with your gear and AP doesn't (necessarily).
To humor you, however, I'll pull some napkin math out. The Insane Strength potion is 319AP for 15sec, and the Haste potion is 25.38% Haste for 15sec.
Let's assume you're Horde using a 3.5 speed weapon (since we are theorycrafting, and the purpose is to nickel and dime your DPS, I thought it'd be fun to use Seal f Blood). We'll say you're averaging ~1500DPS without all the buffs, so it's about 750DPS from White, 330DPS from SoB, and 300DPS from Crusader Strike. The other stuff is unaffected by either potion, so let's forget about it.
First, let's assume you're going to have Bloodlust and Avenging Wrath up, as well as Berserker's Call. So that's +30% Attack Speed (2.45sec), +30% Damage, and +360AP. I'm going to try and put everything in a 15sec window, even though all of these abilities last longer than that.
Bloodlust is approximately a 30% damage increase to your White+SoB DPS, and Avenging Wrath is another 30% damage increase on top of that. So we'll call those at 1,268DPS for white, 558DPS for SoB, and 390DPS for Crusader Strike. For the 360AP, that's 90 damage for your White+SoB attacks, and 85 damage for your Crusader Strikes.
In 15 seconds, assume 7 White swings, 7 Seal of Bloods, and 3 Crusader Strikes. So that gives us up to 1310DPS for White, 600DPS for SoB, and 407DPS for Crusader Strike. These will be our base values when comparing the two potions.
First, let's start with the Haste Potion - it's a 25.38% Haste bonus, so you'll have a 1.83sec weapon. In the 15 seconds, that'll give you about a 25.38% bonus in White and SoB damage, do you'll be at 1642DPS white, 752DPS SoB, and 407DPS for Crusader Strike; totaling an optimal 2801DPS peak.
Now, for the Insane Strength Potion. That's 319AP, so 80 damage to White+SoB and 75 damage to Crusader Strike. That puts 1347DPS for White, 637DPS for SoB, and 422DPS for CS; totaling an optimal 2406DPS peak.
I know I didn't factor in things like crit for the AP, but really, is any variable going to make up a theoretical 400DPS difference? If I made any mistakes, I apologize, but looking back I don't see anything that could tip the scale in favor of the Insane Strength potion. As for Seal of Command, I don't expect there to be as big a difference, but it still wouldn't mean Insane Strength is going to beat Haste potions, simply because of pure scaling factors.
I hope you enjoyed my 9am napkin math session wall of text as much as I did.

Thanks, this seems to make enough sense to work.

actually, you should assume your first CS/autoattack comes at T=0, or more realistically 1. so you can figure 3 cs and an extra auto attack in that 15s.

so here goes my version of your math (using what i thought was the correct haste formulas)

swing speed normal = 3.8 = 4.95 swings
swing speed under heroism = 3.8/1.3 = 2.92 = 6.14 swings
swing speed, haste+heroism = 3.8/(1.3*1.254) = 2.33 = 7.44 swings

call it 9 swings with 78 extra dmg. or 700 dmg. throw in some seals too if you want to wave your hands a little bit. basically, if you autoattack for 1000+ then haste wins hands down since 1.3 extra swings would easily win.

Oh shit, you're right. I always mess up haste because it acts so oddly compared to other effects (dividing my ass). Meh, being at work and not being able to check the wiki will do that to you (Just some friendly advice though, capitalize your post before you get reported).

Point remains, Insane Strength Pots suck.