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Old 10/19/07, 11:28 AM   #151
bellator
King Hippo
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Twilight's Hammer (EU)
Kris, try updating your version of Excel 2003. The file was created in Excel 2003 (11.5612..6412)

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Old 10/19/07, 11:29 AM   #152
Prepared
Von Kaiser
 
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Human Paladin
 
<FoE>
Runetotem
Bellator, it looks like you were on track for the changes for the 502 errors (I could really care less about the buttons, except that's it's annoying that I can't socket any gems). Why the sudden change?

Also, v17 for some reason popped up at the start with: "This file contains links to other files. Should they be updated?"

I told it "no" because it was different than the others.

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Old 10/19/07, 11:41 AM   #153
Gonjaman
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Moonrunner
For some reason, the Shoulder section has s1 and s2 chest pieces instead of shoulders.

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Old 10/19/07, 11:56 AM   #154
Gonjaman
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Moonrunner
Also, the trinket section is mising the skyguard exalted dps trinket.
Missing crafted weapons from weapons section.

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Old 10/19/07, 11:59 AM   #155
Avitus
Great Tiger
 
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Human Paladin
 
Doomhammer (EU)
Originally Posted by bellator View Post
1)In any given fight a paldin uses X amount of mana per second through his abilities (SoC/JoC/CS). He also gains Y mana per second through BoW/JoW/Mana Potting. If for any given dps rotation....

Mana Pool - (Fight Duration in seconds * (Y-X) > 0

...then the paladin will not run out of mana during the fight
I fully agree on that.


Originally Posted by bellator View Post
2) The absolute minimum rotation a paladin must do is to keep SoC uptime at 100% and use CS on cooldown.
I personally think this is an unacceptable minimum, I set my minimum at judging JoC on every cooldown, for the damage and especially to make use of libram effects (whether the +2.4% crit from avengement or the 200 AP from the PTR libram).

However, this is obviously a matter of choice/opinions.

I agree with the rest of your post, as long as the point is brought across that one should not blindly pile on the damage stats without considering mana, I'm happy


On another note, bellator, I have to say I'm impressed by the notes on the new version, much respect for your work mate

I'll check it out when I get home.

Btw: Does the new spreadsheet account for the loss of libram effectiveness if you don't judge on every cooldown?

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Old 10/19/07, 12:18 PM   #156
Xoya
Bald Bull
 
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Xoya
Orc Shaman
 
No WoW Account
You guys should consider testing on the Halaa guards instead of Blasted Lands mobs. Even as a shaman with only ~5k armor, my healing stream totem (ticks for ~49? every 2 seconds) is enough to keep me alive for quite a long while (10+ minutes), and the Halaa guards have a ridiculous amount of health.

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Old 10/19/07, 12:39 PM   #157
bellator
King Hippo
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Twilight's Hammer (EU)
Originally Posted by Prepared View Post
Bellator, it looks like you were on track for the changes for the 502 errors (I could really care less about the buttons, except that's it's annoying that I can't socket any gems). Why the sudden change?
This is still on my list of things to do. I've just put it off as it involves tediously going through the entire code and replacing 'blanks' with 0's :p

Originally Posted by Gonjaman View Post
For some reason, the Shoulder section has s1 and s2 chest pieces instead of shoulders.
Will be fixed in next version

Originally Posted by Gonjaman View Post
Also, the trinket section is mising the skyguard exalted dps trinket.
Missing crafted weapons from weapons section.
I felt the trinket was more of a grinding trinket, but may add it in next version. Will try to get some of the craftable weapons/armour added in.


Originally Posted by Avitus View Post
On another note, bellator, I have to say I'm impressed by the notes on the new version, much respect for your work mate

I'll check it out when I get home.

Btw: Does the new spreadsheet account for the loss of libram effectiveness if you don't judge on every cooldown?
Cheers Avitus. Hopefully the new features will allow you to see the effects of int/mp5 etc on longevity ets. And yes, loss of libram effectivess is factored in.


On another note, can someone confirm which of the following abilities do/do not proc JoW, as want to confirm my calcs are correct:-

Melee,SoC,JoC,SoB,JoC,CS,WF attack.

Cheers

Someone also pointed out to me that Libram of Divine judgement is also being applied in my model to SoB dps when the tooltip only mentions SoC. The way everything is coded makes it a complete pain to remove this error. Best work around is just not to equip it when looking at SoB dps.

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Old 10/19/07, 12:45 PM   #158
Prepared
Von Kaiser
 
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Human Paladin
 
<FoE>
Runetotem
Originally Posted by bellator View Post
This is still on my list of things to do. I've just put it off as it involves tediously going through the entire code and replacing 'blanks' with 0's :p
If you can tell me which "blanks" need to be left alone, I can go ahead and do it myself, but I understand where you're coming from. I'm not here to debate coding progress; after all, most of it's not even commented. :P

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Old 10/19/07, 1:19 PM   #159
Cromfel
Don Flamenco
 
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Human Paladin
 
Ravencrest (EU)
Can any BE confirm Requitals report of JoB being based on melee hit unlike JoC that is based on spell hit?

.:. Retribution Paladin Hideout .:. http://cromfel.battlefield.fi/

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Old 10/19/07, 2:08 PM   #160
Omniprescent
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Wildhammer
Can anyone tell me if Dragonspine Trophy is worth using for a BE paladin? May sound noobish but im not the greatest with numbers!

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Old 10/19/07, 2:55 PM   #161
flyingtoastr
Bald Bull
 
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Human Paladin
 
Draka
Originally Posted by Mearis View Post
The shadowpriest numbers look quite high. Did you include each tick of mindflay as procing JoW?

Even assuming the ideal case scenario of one tick/gcd, that would be around 50% chance of restoring 75 mana per 1.5 seconds, or 75 mana / 3, or 75 / 3 *5 mana per 5, roughly 125 mana/5. That's the complete utter highest number obtainable unless there is a flaw in my math.

Obviously, that's completely unrealistic, since no caster always casts one instant spell every GCD, although shadow priests get the closest if they don't use mindflay much. Arcane mages are the only class that gets above that, but they are gone in the next patch.
Ok, I was under the assumption that Mind Flay can proc JoW each tick of damage (like AM). If not the numbers will be much lower, I'll go ahead and update the list then. Thank you.

Last edited by flyingtoastr : 10/19/07 at 3:04 PM.

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Old 10/19/07, 3:53 PM   #162
Khaelarys
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Lightninghoof
Originally Posted by Cromfel View Post
Can any BE confirm Requitals report of JoB being based on melee hit unlike JoC that is based on spell hit?
In 5 WWS (around 2000 JoB's) I only had partial resists - I never actually had a full resist, which I think is what would show up if I 'missed'. I had around 2% partial resist.

In that same 5 WWS series I had less than 100 JoC's and missed 10%, and about 2% partial resist.

Not such a fantastic number of samples, but as a comparison they're interesting. I'll try to actually test this tonight - someone earlier suggested using halaa guards. I'm not sure how forgiving the alliance will be for my testing, but I might try those since it involves hit.

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Old 10/19/07, 4:23 PM   #163
Mulokmar
Banned
 
Orc Warrior
 
Eldre'Thalas
ret pallies suck, l2heal imo and let a dps or tanking warrior have ur spot

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Old 10/19/07, 4:33 PM   #164
Trippy
Von Kaiser
 
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Orc Warlock
 
Auchindoun
Originally Posted by Mulokmar View Post
ret pallies suck, l2heal imo and let a dps or tanking warrior have ur spot
But I doubt a Warrior can Bless, keep Judgements up, provide 2% damage for his group, and give raidwide 3% crit while maintaining reasonable DPS.


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Old 10/19/07, 4:49 PM   #165
flyingtoastr
Bald Bull
 
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Human Paladin
 
Draka
Originally Posted by Trippy View Post
But I doubt a Warrior can Bless, keep Judgements up, provide 2% damage for his group, and give raidwide 3% crit while maintaining reasonable DPS.

Don't feed the trolls.

Updated the JoW list to include what I think is about right for Enhancement Shamans. Correct me if I'm wrong.

This may not all be accurate (but its the best I could find). These numbers assume a perfect 50% proc rate for JoW to make the math easier. These numbers assume a 100% hit rate to again make the math easier. These calculations only include spells and abilities that can proc JoW, even though there may be more in the rotation. Any haste effects, whether passive (+Haste rating) or talented (Flurry) or from items (Dragonspine Trophy proc), are not considered into the calculations. There is a reason this is the ideal situation test folks. Feel free to fix/add to them as you can.

Hunter
Beast Mastery
Typical Rotation: Autoshot, Steady Shot, repeat
Assumed Autoshot Speed: 2.1s
Ideal Mp5 from JoW: 176.19 Mp5

Marksmanship
Typical Rotation: Autoshot, Steady Shot, Special Shot, Autoshot, Steady Shot, repeat
Assumed Autoshot Speed: 2.5s
Ideal Mp5 from JoW: 185 Mp5

Survival
Typical Rotation: Autoshot, Steady Shot, Special Shot, Autoshot, Steady Shot, repeat
Assumed Autoshot Speed: 2.5s
Ideal M5 from JoW: 185 Mp5

Mage
Fire
Typical Rotation: (After Fire Vunerability x5 is applied) Fireball x8, Scorch, repeat
Ideal Mp5 from JoW: 65.29 Mp5

Frost
Typical Rotation: Frostbolt, repeat
Ideal Mp5 from JoW: 74

Arcane
Typical Rotation: Arcane Blast x2, Arcane Missiles x2, Scorch, repeat
Ideal Mp5 from JoW: 138.75 Mp5

Note for mages assumed 5/5 Improved Fireball/Frostbolt depending on spec

Shaman
Elemental
Typical Rotation: Lightning Bolt, repeat
Ideal Mp5 from JoW: 111 Mp5

Lightning Overload assumed perfect 20% proc rate

Enhancement (Duel Wielding)
Typical Rotation: Stormstrike, Flame Shock, Autoattack, Earth Shock, Autoattack, repeat
Assumed Autoattack Speed: 2.6 Seconds (both hands)
Ideal Mp5 from JoW: 142.3 Mp5

Enhancement (2 Handed)
Typical Rotation: Stormstrike, Flame Shock, Autoattack, Earth Shock, Autoattack, repeat
Assumed Autoattack Speed: 3.8 seconds
Ideal Mp5 from JoW: 102.78 Mp5

Windfury Weapon assumed perfect 20% proc rate on both weapons
Shocks assumed to have nontalented 6 second cooldown


Priest
Shadow
Typical Rotation: Vampiric Touch, Shadow Word: Pain, Mind Blast, Shadow Word: Death, Mind Flay x2, Mind Blast, reapply DoTs as needed
Ideal Mp5 from JoW: 92.5 Mp5

Both the Shadow Priest and Arcane Mage spell rotations are very complicated and vary greatly depending on fight and spec, so take those numbers with the largest grain of salt possible.

Last edited by flyingtoastr : 10/20/07 at 2:00 PM.

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