CaptBooyah

Even if what they said was true about socketed gems being affected, I really dont think there will be anyone disappointed with a change in bonuses that led to a buff ie -> str.

How convoluted must this programming be if they can't change one value. Lazy asses more like it.

 

Ankler

Well they changed socket bonus' before that. An example of that would be one of the warrior T4 helms. There was an issue on the PTR about the bonus being different then what was displayed, but later on it was fixed I believe and the bonus had changed.

 

flyingtoastr

As it was explained to me, you can somehow still have 2 bonuses. If you socketed for the bonus with the old gem setup then they changed it and the gem colors for the new bonus remained the same you would get the effects of both bonuses. I have no idea how it happens, but as it is right now I don't think 4 spell damage in addition to a useful bonus would change a lot of things. Its a shoddy argument at best, and it really comes down to very bad programming.

 

Lookit

The issue, Hortus went on to explain, is that changing the socket bonus of existing items that players have already socketed does bizzare things. So changing the socket bonus on something before it's hit the live realms is entirely doable, but changing the bonus afterwards can cause issues for players that already have the item and have socketed it.

 

Meuble

Thanks for linking the thread btw, I'm always amazed about how stupid blues can sounds... we don't have much of them on french boards. Meh. Not gonna complain. I hope they'll still do something about that damned 4 pieces bonus.

 

flyingtoastr

Well I had a... "mishap" on the Blizzard forums, so if someone wants to bring up the 4-piece there for me it would be super. You can copy/paste my old post if you want (or just bump it, even though it is on the Paladin forums and won't be read by a CM there). Otherwise I will need to wait until 7 PM local time tomorrow to throw it up. Either way.

EDIT: I also updated the JoW list for the 2.4 changes. If there aren't any mechanics changes within the next few days I will post it here.

 

CaptBooyah

Bizarre things due to shoddy programming... esp how one value being changed into another causes 'bizarre things'. The gems socketed should not effect anything other than the players stats and the flag to see if they meet the bonus socket in which case the player receives another value added to their stats. That's only 2-4 values (depending on socket number), the gem colours and the socket bonus... and a flag as to whether or not the gem colours fulfill the criteria for the socket bonus to activate.

There is nothing complicated about that logic. It's just pure bs from whatever angle.

 

Elloris

I posted Toaster's thread in the PTR realm here. Bump it.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes.

 

• Chicken

Just to add a bit to this, the actual effect of changing an existing items socket bonus is that you actually end up getting both bonuses at the same time. I used a [Justicar Faceguard] for ages which provided both +4 block rating (Old socket bonus) and +4 dodge rating (New socket bonus). Both bonuses got added on the character screen as well; I didn't test whether it applied to actual combat however. Oddly when I linked the item or players /inspected me only the new bonus was displayed.

Edit: Now I think about I do seem to remember having my amount of defense/dodge go down below what it actually was at random times back when I used this helm. I blamed it on the bug around at the time which caused some bonuses with the same effect to not stack, but it could be related to having a socket bonus twice on a single item. Unfortunately I don't have the helm any more so I can't try it out. The defense/dodge going down would be, if it was linked to this, indicative of it somehow pushing off the normal enchant on the item when you get double socket bonuses, which would be a pretty undesirable effect.

buff /bʌf/ Pronunciation[buhf]
–verb (used with object)
- to reduce or deaden the force of

 

• Zurm

I bumped it... it seems the final point was cut off in the conclusions though, you might want to fix that

Also, I know that the new BS/JC patterns drop off trash in SWP, but does anyone have any idea on the chance? My guild has been running sunwell since it was up on PTR, and we have yet to see any drops after the first week or so of these patterns.

 

akdjr

It seems the poor thread has been deleted again. In the last few minutes too, since I was just reading the first page! I'm going to take the optimistic approach and assume that they know the 4 piece bonus is useless.

 

Kazekan

One thing I've been trying to do lately is get a good idea of what kind of DPS I should be doing as Ret since I want to be our guild Ret pally for 2.4 (if they even go w/ one). Rawr has been a great utility for giving me an idea of about how much DPS I "should" be doing, however I really don't have in-game experience to compare it to. I've done one Kara run and pulled 730 overall DPS w/ just WF and a Warrior in the group... no other buffs, not even Might/Flask/Food/PAW etc. I figured that was decent for my first Ret run ever, but definitely not where I'd like to be.

I've read tons of posts about how such-and-such Pally did X amount of DPS, and have even found some good WWS reports for non-gimic fights, however there's still one thing that always seems to be left out... group composition. It's assumed you have an enhance shaman (although they don't need to be enhance to supply WF in the end of course), but other than that... what do your raids normally run with? I'm trying to compare exact group comps on similar boss fights that come out to be a certain amount of DPS so that I can plug in the info into Rawr and see where I should stand. I know what would obviously give the most DPS, just not what gives everyone their DPS #'s.

A Ret pally friend of mine that does TK/SSC pulls around 1200 DPS nightly, however they have a stacked melee group, so that's hard to compare. Our raid very rarely brings a feral druid, and we only bring one hunter who happens to be Survival. So, it's kind of hard to realistically compare our two DPS outputs. My guild is clearing BT/Hyjal, and apparently some of the officers are contemplating a Ret pally for 2.4, although they've been extremely hesistant to do so even after 2.3.

Anyways, Rawr tells me I'd do around 1150 DPS w/ my current gear and a group makeup of Fury War/Shaman/X/X. Any chance I could get someone to post the group comp. of one of their WWS reports for some stuff in BT/Hyjal? For example, I noticed Zurm was pulling almost 1300 (1277 to be exact) DPS on Illidan, but what was his group comp. and what debuffs did he have on the mob? My raid doesn't even use FF, and most of the time we don't even use CoR so /shrug. (Edit: Yes, I know he uses SoB and not SoC, just thought I should clarify).

Thanks for the advice in advance!


On a side note, I have some friends that work at Blizzard in a few different departments, one of them being a programmer (not really sure which aspect he programs though), so I'll see if I can get a behind-the-scenes idea of exactly why the socket bonus is apparently such a huge pain. Maybe I can get some technical jargon from him to help give a better explanation We'll see.

 

noth

I think you're going to see most folks answer to group composition will be about the same. "We had an enhance shammie, a DPS warrior, a rogue, and maybe a druid". For what it's worth I top out at just shy of 1500.

Wow Web Stats
(melee group is dahri, arrete, nothe, neone, and either tangent or rogueelf, I don't recall)

WWS Loading...
(melee group is dahri, nothe, euber, neone, and rogueelf)

That's pretty standard for our fights,... dahri, myself and euber are always grouped, and we swap rogues & druids around as needed.

It's pretty unfortunate about the fairy-fire and CoR, though. that armor reduction buffs ALL your melee DPS. With us, if we only have 2 'locks, we drop one of the caster curses rather than CoR.

Good luck breakin' into the melee DPS role, it's a lot of fun!

 

grayrest

Rawr matches up fairly well with what I see on stand and burns, usually around 3-5% higher which I attribute to latency, button pushing screwups on my part, target switching to kill the totems/chains/flares/whatever, etc. I've been raiding in the same gear for almost three months now and because the guild is causual, I've gone through a bunch of group compositions depending on who shows up any given night. Your group composition has a tremendous on your personal dps. I've been as low as 500 dps (no melee buffs, no armor reduction, 40% glancing blows on maiden) and as high as 1150 dps (optimal melee group, full sunder stack, FF, CoR on bear boss) in the same set of gear playing about equally well. Gimmick fights are higher, of course, but they're gimmick fights.

 

Nhul

Is there anything that can be done on Kaz'rogal or is it simply a lost cause to do well due to the mana burns?

I wore the crafted wrists/belt and BT neck tonight and resisted the majority of the Marks, only 3 or 4 landed I think, but even then its a blow to the dps I can put out as I either gimp my stats, judge less, and use mana pots instead of haste or flirt with blowing up my fellow melee. :[

Should I just accept that I wont be able to perform well at all on that fight?

 

• Theras

Our entire raid - aside from the tank - uses capped shadow resistance gear for Kaz'rogal. Nobody blows up, and nobody dies. Who cares about epeens when it saves people repair bills?

 

Nhul

Yes I agree, our first shot at him I underestimated the impact the mark would have on my mana pool and nearly killed the tank and have never been close since. Tonight I dont think I dipped under 3500 mana or so, and was able to maintain decent dps but was wondering if there is something other then stacking shadow resist that I could do personally.

 

flyingtoastr

I do not condone this tactic. Use at your own risk.

On Kaz (if we have enough pallys throwing Blessings) I will often keep a Blessing of Sacrifice up on the main tank. Between that constant 101 every 2 seconds or so and the Ground Stomp I was able to keep up my mana relatively easily via Spiritual Atunement. Make sure your healers know what is going on, a downranked renew easily can keep you topped off as long as your healers know its coming.

And of course, cap your Shadow Resist as well. I run that fight at 40 hit rating and still am able to pull reasonable DPS.

 

Deac

Just put on full mother shaz shadow res gear, well at least 300+.

I tend to resist all marks with that sort of gear on and i can dps with a full manapool all the way down to 0%.

Yes 700-800 dps isn't to fun to look at but its safe and easy.

 

• Avitus

Personally I don't use any shadow res (well just the neck).


You can eat up 1 mark by bubbling in time = 3k mana saved.

Then it's spam mana pots and dark runes when they're up, I also use an Alchemist's Stone for extra mana.

Don't use consecration and make sure you have JoW and BoW up.

That's usually enough.

 

Valerys

Use a mana pot first, that way it's off CD again during the fight. Bubble on the second. If you are desperate, farm Scholo for a [Dark Rune]. If you are a blood elf, make sure to have a full stack of mana taps before the fight (get them off necromancers and banshees in the trash waves), arcane torrent as soon as you can, and mana tap Kazrogal again whenever you can.
Make your holydin drop a JoW, of course.

I often forget to equip any SR gear at all and I still usually do fine.

 

Wrl

Basically this. Definitely get your SR set made, I still pull 1000dps in 300 SR gear. I also equip my Aran trinket for the extra mana and regen.

Gori | Aja | Secured | Sao | Wrl | Lloem

 

pr0faiin

I've never really had a problem on Kaz as ret... as long as wisdom is up, and if I have wisdom myself I'm fine--with just my BT neck. The shammy drops mana spring as well, so that helps. I've resisted a whole fight's worth of marks, and then next week get every one of them. /shrug

I still want to take out the melees sometime though.

 

◊ Rodimus Prime

Ok, mechanics question - and maybe I've missed the answer in these pages - but, I've read several different takes on Hammer of Wrath and it resetting/pushing back the melee swing timer... IE, the poster just below flyingtoastr referred to it as a swing reset, but flyingtoastr referred to it as a melee pushback.

First, can we get a clarification on this, and second, under what hypothetical situations/changes to the talent (Besides making it instant, as I doubt blizz would be that generous) would make it viable in PvE settings? If you're using a slow enough weapon is it possible to work it in as you would with a Slam rotation for Warriors?

 

yureisakebi

i often loose me swing timer althou i cast it 2 seconds befor the next swing . so i stoped using hammer. i only use it when i have to stay away from ne mob like allar sometimes or leo for example