Also taking a break from the Executioner argument, I'm really hoping a workable mac version of Rawr comes out soon so I can mess around with it too. I look forward to seeing it in action.

Mmmm a reason to finally farm out that pattern on my alchemist. Thanks for the info.

EDIT: Happy 3000th post.

I already said I'm not getting involved with this anymore, but multiple posts require an answer I guess, though I would prefer to end this back and forth soon, it's really just starting to become a derail where all parties involved understand the mechanics but insist on nitpicking a number up and down.

I think some of what I said was misunderstood, I'm talking about the "big picture".

My point is that Mongoose is across the board the best enchant you can get if you have no arm pen at all on your gear, or if you have some arm pen, but the boss is very high armor or if the mobs are not debuffed fully or debuffs drop off.

Executioner is only good "if and only if" 3 things are valid (a lot of arm pen gear, low armor boss, all debuffs used) and when it is good, there's very negligible difference.


And here comes the part which I don't understand: Why would you enchant your weapon for that very specific case for a very minor difference instead of just sticking with one that works under all conditions?


Yes, if you have a lot of armor pen then it becomes less of an argument (since differences to both sides are minimal), but so frequently I see people on this forum come asking "hi guys I'm raiding Kara, SSC" and people tell them Executioner and Mongoose are more or less the same.

This is simply not true, people at that content level have no armor pen at all, very frequently don't have all necessary debuffs for Executioner to compete with Mongoose. So why give that advice?

I've been farming Illidan for over 5 months and my gear has 0 armor pen, assuming I didn't know how things work and I read this forum and people say "hey Executioner is just as good as Mongoose", don't you believe that blanket stating something like that is just plain bad advice?

And as illustrated before with BT, 6/9 bosses are 7700 armor, so the majority of the bosses Executioner loses out.


Last but not least, in new content, the very defining fight where your DPS is going to matter more than any fight, Mongoose is the way to go, so why would you enchant for the other encounters where it matters less?


Please understand what I'm saying here, as general advice, Mongoose is the way to go. Executioner only comes into play in very specific scenarios and should be taken with a huge pinch of salt when that advice is given (Read: A lot of conditions have to be met and even then the difference is minimal, so why bother?).

Sigurd please don't drop this to the level of discussing probability. You know your "argument" can go both ways, you can crit a lot or crit few times. You can proc this a lot or not. The Haste from Mongoose is also a static buff that does not depend on a second chance.

Going to that level of discussion would be really futile so lets not.

It is generalized advice because the "general case scenario" is in favor of Mongoose.

I have a Cat edge banked just in case we do get SoB at some point, but I'd never switch out my Torch for it while I have only SoC atm.



If I was to sum up all I'm trying to say:

-You can't go wrong with Mongoose, regardless of gear, debuffs, boss armor. This is the general case.

-On the other hand, Executioner "can" be a waste and requires very specific conditions to match Mongoose (or exceed by very little). These conditions are not all in your hand (debuffs WILL drop off, different bosses have different armor values). And in the case where it is very slightly better it's a negligible increase. So why not stick with Mongoose?

And when giving advice to people, why would you recommend both? What if that person is using 0 arm pen (many do atm), is fighting bosses in ZA with only few debuffs in a 10 man (no FF, no CoR for example), is Mongoose == Executioner still valid then? No.

so, im new to the site and had a quick question on rawr, specifically for retadins.

i noticed in the above screenie that it was the beta 12.1 but with the ret module.

i dl rawr, but there is no ret module so far as i can tell, any advice on this?

sorry to detract from thread there.

although, i wish i had read this sooner as i just got executioner on my new sword, based on a friends advice...time to farm shards :S

Thanks. This perfectly illustrates what I'm trying to point out.

What sort of gear do you have and what content do you raid if I may ask?


http://elitistjerks.com/669499-post2739.html

well, im a "casual" raider so ssc and tk, with a grand total of 304 armor pen on my gear

and thanks for the link

Just wanted to confirm that there is a problem with Omen, not our threat. I was at 180% a few times during our BT run according to Omen and the tank maintained aggro with ease. I'm going to guess it has something to do with not applying Fanaticism correctly.

EDIT: The latest revision (r67186) seems to have fixed the problem.

What are the thoughts on these new haste gems?

I don't remember any melee haste gems being out. The spell haste gems are obviously trash.

One thing to note is, make sure everyone in your guild updates. There's been a recent version that is not backwards compatible anymore, so if some have old versions they'll not show up.



Been rocking Fel Mana Pots on Brutallus and damn it's a sweet mana boost.

Better yet, if you want to go all out, you can take them much earlier than normal mana pots (as soon as you hit -1000ish mana) since they regen mana in ticks over time rather than a full amount instantly.

What kind of DPS numbers are you pally's seeing on brutallus. Im just interested in comparing my own to some of yours to see if I am on the right track.

That's a relief. I spent half my last run having to stand back for fear of pulling aggro Hi ho, hi ho, it's off to WAU I go.

On another note, Zurm, how's that Felspine working out for you? Had my eye on one since I heard it got moved to trash, but our raid leaders not letting us go there yet

Out of all the attempts we did last night (no kill sadly) I was looking at 1750-1850 depending on wf/crit % for that attempt. Group was enhancement shaman, ms war, rogue, rogue. Had a survival hunter in raid. If we keep the tanks alive for 6 minutes we win

1500-1550

To push it over 1600, you need an enhancement shaman (I only had resto), to push it over 1700+ you need Seal of Blood, to push it even higher you need a survival hunter

I did 1751 DPS while in the melee group for our kill, with numerous holes in my Ret gear setup.

Hi guys,
I've been holy since way before BC but now in sunwell and since i have the best gear the guild would like me to maybe spec ret especially for fights like Brutallus. I was just curious what yall thought of my gear and if there was anything that stood out as needing to be replaced.

The World of Warcraft Armory

Second i have a question about dps rotations. Ive looked at some spreadsheets but haven't found the perfect rotation. Should I judge/reseal then cs and repeat that forever or cs and judge reseal if cs isn't up since cs will come up sooner with its 6 second cd? I would just like some input on high dps rotations and anything else yall think I can do to increase it.

We're having the same problem but I can only get my personal DPS up to approximately 1450. I'm not sure if it's my rotation that's screwed up or that I don't have the right consumable usage, but it frustrates me that I can't get up to the levels that some of you are reaching (with a similar group composition/gear setup).

I just changed the enchant on my Torch of the Damned to Executioner to see if there will be an effect but haven't tested it yet.

I guess I'll wait for a response to Tetsusaiga's post and compare my rotation to yours.

Why a downranked consecration and not a max rank?

I hate to be that guy but...

I think the tools for you to determine your own possible upgrades are easily available, and include searching this site as well as utilizing both maxDPS.com and Rawr (An app for figuring out your dps based off of gear).

Additionally your exact second question was answered maybe 2-3 pages back:

Well hold on, what's your group composition looking like ? Do you have a survival hunter ? Does your enhancement shaman twist totems ? Do you have blood frenzy war with solarian sapphire in raid ? Feral druid O/T to keep up FF ? How many leatherworkers are in your group ? Are you taking haste pots in conjunction with trinkets/AW ? Using CoR ?

There are a million things that will add up to you doing solid damage, and little of it you have an influence on, lots of it is up to the raid leader and just having the right people in your raid group. I don't know the answer to any of the questions above but checking yes to all of them will REALLY up your dps.

Honestly. You just need to spec ret, hit up the blasted land mobs and just have at it~ The best way to get a feel for a max dps rotation is just by practice. I personally don't feel that there's "One dps rotation to rule them all" You have to just play it by ear a lot of times and watch the timing on all your abilities closely. You eventually get into a really good groove. Just make sure to prioritize crusader strike, while weaving in the judgement of your seal, exorcism and consecration.

Spamming max rank consecration for 6 mins is kinda hard on mana.