Getting back to Fiola's topic of Seal of Command proccing Windfury...
I have not yet convinced my enhancement shaman to do some testing on this, still trying. We've been busy lately. Finally got Kalecgos down on this week. But, I've finally gotten a WWS parse now that upload is working again to see some numbers.
My math could be wrong. My knowledge of statistics is gleaned entirely from Fiola's post. I'd apprecaite someone else checking my work that knows these things better than me.
Conclusion, from what little I know of statistics, a 4.3 deviation is pretty huge. I definitely think this needs further investigation. I will continue to try to convince a shaman to get me a more clinical data set. If anyone else can help that would be fantastic.
I have had a lower critrate with CS (about 10% less) from my last two full Kara clears.
I just thought it was randomly unlucky, so didn't think much about it.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
Anybody's good with maccros? Afterall, if we manage to make sure SoB will proc on the white hit (it's not always the case. If you fuck up with your timing, you might have no proc at all instead of soc + sob + sob or juste sob) it might worth the try.
I know nothing about maccros, so if someone is able to tell if there's any way to make one that will respect an appropriate timing, or if it's not doable at all, please say so.
My white hits and SoB are bang on the 32-34% range for crits. But again tonight my CS hovers at 18-22%.
I'm curious on something else. Consecrate on bosses. Now I know they changed it a while make to make it easier for Consec to clip bosses and I always used the "red circle" as a rough guide. Now they shrank all these circles and I can't tell if consec will hit or not. Will it land so long as I am able to melee it? For example Brutallus.
From last WWS in BT my CS crit rate was exactly 26%, like normal swing! im messing around with haste, so i know its low these days but im changing my equip in a few days i think!
I think its just pure luck/unluck if crit rates sometimes seems a little bit off!
My white hits and SoB are bang on the 32-34% range for crits. But again tonight my CS hovers at 18-22%.
I'm curious on something else. Consecrate on bosses. Now I know they changed it a while make to make it easier for Consec to clip bosses and I always used the "red circle" as a rough guide. Now they shrank all these circles and I can't tell if consec will hit or not. Will it land so long as I am able to melee it? For example Brutallus.
Yes it will always hit if you are in melee range (I've tried it on Brutallus and it's worked fine).
Back to the CS crit % thing, here's some WWS from a few of my ret runs (just speced for it about a week ago). As you can see, I'm having no issues with CS critting. No idea what's up.
Here's the odd part. The axe has better stats, more dps, etc. When I use bellator's spreadsheet, it shows me that torch is better. Granted it has the higher topend, but will the topend alone negate the crit and overall weapon dps that is lost?
I guess I want to know what the best weapon for me at this time is. We have BT and Hyjal on farm. I'm currently using the blade of the harbingers, and I was wondering if it would be worth picking up a torch or cat's edge. Thanks in advance for any input.
Addendum: I read the forums for a bit, and finally came across someone saying that it beats torch and even cat's edge. My question is why does the spreadsheet say differently?
I found the error.. for whatever reason, my version of excel wasn't clearing gems properly. I reloaded it and it seems to have the axe ahead of the mace by a decent margin.
Last edited by Pulout : 05/08/08 at 6:15 PM.
Reason: Found the error
If I were you, I'd try out Rawr and see what that tells you. I can't imagine torch or cat's edge being better than the new badge axe, i remember when i was looking at it the badge axe was better by 5-10 dps.
Formally Xyrm/Zurm, the Ret Pally. Now playing my rogue, Zyrm, more casually with RL friends.
It great to see pallys with those kind of numbers but i just dont understand what im missing to get those: /
Am I just not managing abilities and c/ds effectively? Seems like my gear should be able to pull more than I’m getting
A few thoughts I had were to switch out DM:C for BC and use that AW and a haste pot then go fel mana after that here is a link to our first brut kill 1750 dps not bad I guess but I want more our shammy is TT and we had 4 drummers. I have torch didn’t use it for that kill but I guess ill try using it for this week. I’m just not sure what else I can do : /
Any thoughts would be great.
I can't speak for alliance and i'm sure the lack of haste scaling creates different mechanics (fel mana + consecrate etc)
but for any bloodelves interested on brut for this kill (Link - Wow Web Stats 2156dps 1 lust) my cooldown rotation was as follows.
(We had 4 drummers so assume perma +haste)
20 seconds in - Haste Pot (helps get vengeance stacked faster if you're unlucky as well, i'd do it earlier but i dont want to pull aggro)
2 minutes in - Bloodlust
2 mins 15 seconds in - Avenging wrath (i drop 3 max rank consecrates during AW)
2 mins 20 seconds in - Haste Pot
5mins 15 seconds - Avenging wrath
5mins 20 seconds - Haste pot
I'm usually able to sustain a constant rank 1 consecrate throughout and switch to max ranks during AW. I'll also throw in a max rank here and there if i feel i'm doing ok for mana (i know i could prolly manage this better with different ranks of consecrate throughout ie rank 4... but since mana regen is procc based.. rng ftl its frankly too much effort)
In terms of normal abilities.. i'm on a 350 ms ping so my rotations regularly get screwed up. Generally ill always prioritise in this order; Crusader Strike -> Judgement (for libram procc 53 crit rating) -> Refresh Seal of Blood -> Exorcism -> Consecrate. (Drums etc take priority over everything because group dps > my own) Occasionally if my swing timer permits (it rarely does when its a 2 second swing) ill judge, use another global like cs and then use the next global on SoB)
Huh? Am I missing something? It's actually saying the bladespire warbands are the absolute best upgrade for me, but I cannot figure out what circumstance would make them better. Losing the gems would not cause me to lose my meta.
It would not make me lose my meta within my setup in Rawr.
Last edited by Sujurek : 05/08/08 at 11:46 PM.
Reason: Clarification.
The only thing I can think of would be you need a blue gem to fulfill your Meta requirements, but you say that's not it... If you're sure that's not it, I don't know. Send me and Zurm your character file?
The only thing I can think of would be you need a blue gem to fulfill your Meta requirements, but you say that's not it... If you're sure that's not it, I don't know. Send me and Zurm your character file?
Looks like I just needed to refresh the list after switching the gem in the item, so it seems to be a user error and not an issue with the program itself, apologies for the raised concern.
There was a post today on the US Paladin class forums about the CM Eyonix playing a horde paladin... the issue of Human vs Blood Elf Paladins were quickly brought up... mainly DPS differences between SoB and SoC this is his reply:
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Q u o t e:
Eyonix, i hope you know you probably told alliance ret paladins the one thing that could make them more upset with you than before.
It amounted to them hearing that while you have actually listened to what they are saying, you do not see the (to them) obvious dps gap between races (not classes) as a problem, and have no intention of changing it.
I'm really hoping this is a misunderstanding and that's not what you meant... Is it?
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Eyonix:
We are aware of the concerns here. There are no immediate plans for changes in this regard. If we do decide to make any change, we'll let you all know.
Now that M'uru has been killed, what are people's thoughts on Blackened Naaru Sliver?. Depending on the proc rate/internal cooldown, it could be better than DST for belfadins...
Now that M'uru has been killed, what are people's thoughts on Blackened Naaru Sliver?. Depending on the proc rate/internal cooldown, it could be better than DST for belfadins...
Seems like a better trinket for fury warriors and rogues for the most part. Usefulness depends entirely on the internal cooldown, and in that respect amount of haste on said Paladin (for stacking more AP during the duration).
I'm at work so I haven't been able to try it yet, and at the moment I'm wondering if it's at all worth dropping Crusader Strike for.
A radical idea, to be sure, but just thinking about timing seals with my swing timer is making my head spin without having to consider CS's 6 second cooldown in the midst of all that.
Now that M'uru has been killed, what are people's thoughts on Blackened Naaru Sliver?. Depending on the proc rate/internal cooldown, it could be better than DST for belfadins...
I honestly can't see anyone able to stack this fast enough. I can pretty much guarantee it wont stack off of seal procs, and even as a blood elf with a ton of haste you aren't going to realistically break a 2.75 attack speed...which means in 6 seconds you make about 3-4 hits, where as a fury warrior or a rogue might make 10. It just doesn't seem viable, but as a Blood Elf the passive haste is quite nice. I'm going to try to model it for Rawr assuming a fairly standard 1 minute internal cooldown, and see where we go from there.
Formally Xyrm/Zurm, the Ret Pally. Now playing my rogue, Zyrm, more casually with RL friends.
I'm wondering if it's at all worth dropping Crusader Strike for.
Even puting aside the massive amount of dps you'll lose by not using crusader strike, you're losing the ability to refresh judgements which is the main reason we're brought along on raids to begin with.
A ret paladin that doesn't use crusader strike is a ret paladin that doesn't get to raid.
Seems like a better trinket for fury warriors and rogues for the most part. Usefulness depends entirely on the internal cooldown, and in that respect amount of haste on said Paladin (for stacking more AP during the duration).
I think it's safe to assume that this trinket has no internal cooldown and works on a PPM system only, like [Madness of the Betrayer] otherwise, if it had a internal cooldown, how would you be able to stack it?
Also a first glance, yes, looks like a better choice for rogues, fury warriors and maybe hunters, however if you consider no internal coooldown, it just boils down if the PPM allows paladins to build (and keep) a full stack or not.
I can't speak for alliance and I'm sure the lack of haste scaling creates different mechanics (fel mana + consecrate etc)
I really dont think haste is as bad for alliance as everyone is making it out to be. Sure it scales better with SoB, but most of our damage is white damage anyways, and if you are hitting the target faster you are getting more chances for JoW to proc. I know my mana goes through the roof if I'm able to get a heroism/bloodlust. I pop a haste potion when I use Avenging wrath, and mana potions for the remainder of the fight. Drums rule etc.
I think it's safe to assume that this trinket has no internal cooldown and works on a PPM system only, like [Madness of the Betrayer] otherwise, if it had a internal cooldown, how would you be able to stack it?
Also a first glance, yes, looks like a better choice for rogues, fury warriors and maybe hunters, however if you consider no internal coooldown, it just boils down if the PPM allows paladins to build (and keep) a full stack or not.
I think you misread the tooltip. Its a chance to enter a Battle Trance... you can stack only while this "Battle Trance" buff is on you (which lasts only 20 seconds). The stacking is entirely dependent on weapon swings while the buff is up, you cannot stack continuously. If you could stack it continously it would be far and away the best trinket in the game, like a Darkmoon card on crack.
Formally Xyrm/Zurm, the Ret Pally. Now playing my rogue, Zyrm, more casually with RL friends.
I really dont think haste is as bad for alliance as everyone is making it out to be. Sure it scales better with SoB, but most of our damage is white damage anyways, and if you are hitting the target faster you are getting more chances for JoW to proc. I know my mana goes through the roof if I'm able to get a heroism/bloodlust. I pop a haste potion when I use Avenging wrath, and mana potions for the remainder of the fight. Drums rule etc.
Just my 2cents.
Haste has never been qualified as "bad" for Alliance pallys. It is simply worse than pure Strength for us (or Armor Penetration in certain situations), whereas it is better than Strength for Horde. Haste is still a DPS increase for everyone, it is just less of one for us than them (which is why the devs were still comfortable dumping massive amounts of it on SWP gear).
The reason Fel Mana pots come out above Haste pots for Alliance whereas Haste pots rule for Blood Elves is simply because more of their damage scales with haste.
The only people who call haste a bad stat are the... people... on the Blizzard forums who don't understand the class mechanics correctly (most of them who still insist that CS is holy damage as well, I had a fun 2 page argument about that a few weeks ago).
Originally Posted by SSWarder
I think it's safe to assume that this trinket has no internal cooldown and works on a PPM system only, like [Madness of the Betrayer] otherwise, if it had a internal cooldown, how would you be able to stack it?
Also a first glance, yes, looks like a better choice for rogues, fury warriors and maybe hunters, however if you consider no internal coooldown, it just boils down if the PPM allows paladins to build (and keep) a full stack or not.
If you have any experience with it, think of [Pendant of the Violet Eye] from Shade of Aran. When the trinket "procs" you get one buff (called Battle Trance). You then get a second stacking buff each time you attack while you have the "Battle Trance" buff (knowing the devs it will be called Bloodlust just to f with our WWS's again ). Thus the actual stacks and the buff from the trinket are two seperate buffs.
Last edited by flyingtoastr : 05/09/08 at 4:26 PM.
My bad, totaly misread the tooltip, was already thinking about getting one of those but seeing as we can't even build a full stack unless we get a proc under bloodlust makes it much less desirable and much better used in the hands of other classes.
It's chance to stack 10 times, effect lasts 20 seconds. I'm pretty sure you can stack 10 hits in that time.
White, Windfury, CS will definitely count, possibly SoC/JoC.
Now where it ranks relatively to other trinkets is yet to be determined. Sometimes trinkets that look otherwise weak for us, still turn out to be better than most, if not best (DST).
I never really looked before but last night I also noticed that CS was hitting about 20% crit. But my melee crit stat is about 33%. Frustrating. Perhaps there is more to this than random luck? Have I overlooked something?
You guys pushing 2k on Brutallus amaze me. If I get 1800 it's a good try. Granted I dun have a better weapon or a decent weapon chant (Mongoose) but still.
All show 2-4% less crit for CS. If someone is gathering data then I thought I might help by supplying the reports that my guild still has posted. These are just my 3 last raids, and there was no sleight of hand or omission of raids with a higher cs crit rate.
Edit: I have access to my guilds WWS and can undelete a few more reports if someone decides to use my WWS.
Edit: that reminds me my libram would make it more likely that I have more white crits then CS crits since I judge after I CS. I think all of these numbers I have fall within RNG, but I should see more reports with a slightly lower CS crit.
05/08/08, 4:04 PM
). Thus the actual stacks and the buff from the trinket are two seperate buffs.
