Gevlin

sigh, they make me go in the tank group for brutallus to run devo aura....i guess i get GoA, SoE, and LotP, but yeah, doing 1300 dps or so isn't all that fun.

zurm, the point isn't having ap instead of haste, its having both when all % modifiers are up.

two scenarios:

80 haste + normal buffs for 30s, and 80 haste + heroism/avenging wrath for 30s
OR
normal buffs for 30s, and 80haste + 60 ap + heroism/avenging wrath for 30s

which one leads to more total damage done in that 1 minute window?

 

Exemplar

Gevlin - no Holy paladins in your raid? They should have Imp Devo Aura and have no problem providing it to your MT.

Losing a Conc Aura < losing Sanct Aura and WF.

 

flyingtoastr

Recoil damage regen is lower, but the difference is about 8 Mp5 running some rough math with Zurm's last WWS of a Brut kill for examples (I'll type it out here if you really want it). Not enough to say "ZOMG SoC >>>>>>> SoB!". SoC is still a worse seal in every other respect, that 8 Mp5 will give you a whopping 576 mana on a 6 minute Brut fight, enough for 2 more Rank VI Consecrations in place of of rank IV.

Not to mention the regen from SoC/JoW procs is completely static whereas the regen via recoil scales with Haste, Attack Power and Critical Strike rating.

Some people's minds are like cement: all mixed up and permanently set.

 

Gevlin

yeah....except they qq alot about mana problems and not having a shadow priest on brut. plus we ran 3 rogues 1 war 1enh 1 ret. normally the extra rogue goes in the GoA group with the huntards and feral, but we give that to tanks on brut, and they also "need" devo. so i essentially get pigeonholed into that. we have the dps regardless so its a moot point to argue about it with anybody if there is a dead boss at the end of the night.

edit: in response to Exemplar

 

Handled

Haven't been theorycrafting and missed a lot of pages but this is a no brainer for me.

Lazy Paladins will never be able to setup proper buffs, They are lazy and I see them every day the ones who you have to tell 15 times that the Wisdom Paladin needs to salv the Enhancement Shaman and the Kings Paladin needs to salv the Ret Paladin.

I hate lazy Raiders.

 

yamamoto

Hey, guys. I've recently begun reading these boards to better myself as a Ret Paladin. Currently, I do not use any sort of macros for Ret in a raiding environment. Could someone enlighten me to some of the more basic/necessary Macros that are needed or point me to a thread that already has them listed or a page on this thread? I hope I'm asking this in the right forum thread.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

Mountie

I'm usually the type to try and do things for myself but I could really use some help here. If anyone wants to take a look over my log and has any suggestions or advice for doing better I could really use it. There's only two of us in the group with drums and I slightly mistimed AWrath+haste pot and they ran 3 seconds over the end of bloodlust. I also forgot to re-apply elixir of demonslaying late in the fight which really sucked since this was a 1% wipe. But, it was just one of those nights where you one shot stuff one week and wipe a tonne the next.

Kikoku: Wow Web Stats
The World of Warcraft Armory

I'm just not sure if I can do any better than I am, but I feel like my dps really isn't as high as a lot of other people here and I'm open to suggestions.

Thanks for such a great thread over the past 6 months or so

 

Gevlin

i would say more than anything its just a gear difference. 1750 dps is very respectable. you have sub 30% crit and under 1900 ap unbuffed. if you look at people pulling close to 2k they have significantly more stats. i haven't parsed through your combat log yet, but at first glance it looks to be about what i'd expect.

 

Astinus

I'm an end of T4 beginning T5 Retribution paladin and we do not have an enhancement shaman. Our melee group consists of 3 rogues, 1 war, 1 ret paladin. My damage done is generally number 1 or number 2 out of the melee group on our progression stuff. Yet I have recently been told that if we do get an Enhancement shaman I am getting the boot from that group. The 2% damage I am giving the group isn't enough to keep me in there? I feel like I am being repressed. "Help! Help! I'm being repressed!" What fuel do I have to argue my case that I should be in that group instead of the 3rd rogue?

If you want to look:

SSC: WWS
Gruul/Mag: WWS

 

Mountie

ugh, double edged sword. Good to know I'm doing ok, bad to know there might not be much more I can do. Somewhat frustrating if it's just the gear, a few stats here and there really adds up, eh.

Thanks Gevlin

 

Ysabelle

/cast Judgement
/stopcasting
/cast Seal of Blood

/use Haste Potion
/cast Avenging Wrath

/cast Crusader Strike
/startattack

All you will ever need.

Not much to it for Ret.

 

flyingtoastr

The only difference from the above (other than the SoC in place of SoB) is in my Avenging Wrath macro, since I'm still using an on-use trinket.

/cast Avenging Wrath
/use 14

Some people's minds are like cement: all mixed up and permanently set.

 

Fadaar

One conundrum I've sort of backed myself into is trinkets. Shard of Contempt is obviously going to be my #1 choice no matter what (unless I somehow get enough expertise elsewhere to cap out as a human using a mace/sword). However, my second trinket slot continues to baffle me on what I should actually do with that slot.

On the one hand I can put a Berserker's Call in there, assuming I can get the stupid thing to drop. On the other hand, I can leave my Assassin's Alchemist Stone in there. Choice might seem pretty cut and dry, but there's a catch -- potions. With the alch stone (on fights like Brutallus) I can manage to go back and forth between haste potions and mana potions by popping a haste potion toward the beginning (say 10 to 15 seconds in when sunders, 3 stacks of Vengeance, and so forth are up) and right around the two minute mark my mana deficit gets above 3000 mana.

So here's my question: in terms of raw dps and with proper timing (ie maximizing the potential of a haste potion), which is better for a fight like Brutallus? Using the combination I currently have (Shard + Alch Stone) or swapping for Berserker's Call and using mana potions more often?

 

• Avitus

Assassin's Alchemist's Stone + Fel Mana Potions will always give you better performance than Berserker's Call. Where it gets tricky is where Dragonspine Trophy + Haste Potions and DMC:C + Haste Potions rate.


Regarding macros, this is what I use for PvE:

SoC macro (alternates as SoR macro if I switch a shield on, helps for frequent respecting/role switching):

CS macro with startattack (helps to avoid you ever being idle):

Multi-rank consecration macro (you can tailor your consecration use depending on mana status):

 

• Zurm

Rawr Beta 14.1 posted!

DOWNLOAD: Rawr b14.1


Beta 14.1:
- Possible fix for the 'Unable to access a disposed object' error. I still haven't been able to reproduce this, so am not sure if this will solve it; please let me know asap if you still encounter this issue.
- Fix for the optimizer swapping gems around inappropriately when using Known Gemmings Only.
- Fixed the tab order on the Load Character From Armory dialog.
- Added temporary buffs for the SSO Tanking neck
- Fixed the lack of spellcrit on Improved Judgement of the Crusader
- Added Trueshot Aura, and setbonuses for Primalstrike, Clefthoof, and Fel Leather sets.
- Made the item selection dropdown perform much better.

- Rawr.Retribution:

-Changed sliders to be number of buffs instead of uptime %. Uptime is calulcated automatically based on fight duration.
-WF and SoC is somehow broken, will look into it but atm using B14 will probably be your best bet. (thanks Avitus)

 

Zupal

Tried juggling this last night in Sunwell. I found it to be more annoying that it was worth (particularly on Brut where I am also weaving in Exorcism).

The only real change I made was putting up SotC, CS'ing then judging rather than judging first.

It's entirely possible someone will find a more efficient/better model down the line but I'm not seeing a huge change out of the gate.

 

Covertghost

It looks as if seal-twisting is much more DPS, even though it's pretty easy to screw up the rotation if you aren't used to it.

My first night doing it in a raid environment:

Wow Web Stats (brutallus, didn't have enh shaman for first 30%)

It seems it'd be possible to break ~2300 DPS by twisting SoC with Blood if you have a good rotation going.

 

akdjr

What was your rotation like, and what was your mana consumption like?

 

• Zurm

How did you not go oom even using rank 1?

 

Sapp

He only consecrated 3 times total. that's a lot of mana saved.

On Ret paladins:
<Fyr> its like they went from sniffing powdered sugar for 3 years, got real cocaine for 2 weeks, and are pissed that they're going back to the sugar again

 

• Zurm

Wow, I'm going to try this tonight. Use a judge/reseal macro for SoC, and just a plain seal button for SoB. CS/exorcism in spare time. I really think it will rape my mana, but it will pretty much guarantee judgement of blood close to CD (since the judgement is independent of GCD).

If this really works as advertised, I can only expect a fix soon. There is no way they'd let a disparity like this exist between horde and alliance.

(On a side note, tonight is Twins shadow chick first... I'm hugely threat capped. Might have to wait for ZA or some such instance to test this).

 

• frmorrison

With seal twisting, I guess you would seal twist first priority, then CS/Judge as you can? Use r1 Command?


Just like totem twisting, I don't see how this could be fixed other than changing the core mechanics of SoC.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

makotospeaks

is there any kind of petition/bomb-threat going on about our T6 4 piece? Or has anyone heard of any news to smoke less crack and change it. Or am i retarted and people actually use that ability outside of pvp...

on a related note to seal twisting, anyone tried useing Vengenance with Command as alliance?

 

Merple

What's the rotation here? Judge/SoC wait for the autoattack, then seal blood? I think that's what I'm seeing on Barrelroll's combat log...

 

• frmorrison

There have been many threads on the WoW forums, I doubt the bonus will ever change. Petitions do not work in WoW.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.