Because they won't drop!

Last night I encountered what I figure is a graphical bug, but I want to make sure it is just that before I forget about it. If someone else judges crusader on a mob and then I overwrite it I often see two JotC debuffs on the mob (Don't ask why someone else was judging it!). I assume it's just a graphical thing (One debuff gives the extra crit while the other gives the spell damage buff) rather than giving double spell damage bonuses, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask before I investigate.

I don't think its a bug. Unless they have Imp JotC as well, they are technically different judgements. If you were both applying JoW to the mob or whatever, one would overwrite the other.

It is indeed a graphical bug that's been around since the start of TBC.

Yea that was a side remark in brackets for SoB users :P For SoC, 14 DPS loss is quiet hefty, especially considering how close the pvp weapon becomes for us now (S4 sword).

Having the end of game two hander very close to the Season 4 sword for PvE does not sound too great to me.


Zurm, I don't think his question was Rawr related.

Yes, Berserker's Call > jewelcrafting trinket on paper, however his specific question was related towards being able to use the "on use" effect with AW every time with the jewelcrafting trinket (where as this is not possible with Berserker's Call without delaying abilities), which is something Rawr does *not* actually model.

Maybe someone has time to do some napkin math on this here.

Again I'm currently (till June 2nd) under a lot of exam pressure, no new post until then, though additionally at the moment there seem to be quiet a few issues that I'd like to have ironed out before we make a new thread (SoC/WF mechanics mainly, any more thoughts on SoB/SoC twisting?).



??

The program is pretty self explanatory, I fail to see how you can't find the answers to your questions if you spent more than 10 seconds using it.

Lets say these are 5 minute fights and the first time you blow your cds is at 30 sec.:

- Berserker's call -> 585 ap for 20 sec (x2), 90 ap for 260 sec.
Avg: 156ap for the fight waiting for AW cd to pop the trinket (147ap if you don't)
- Shadowsong Panther -> 520ap for 15 sec (x2)., 400ap for 15 sec., 80ap for 255 sec.
Avg: 140ap

I think this illustrates which should be better pretty much all the time. Even poping Beserkers Call without waiting for AW to cool down you get more dps with it. The Panther would win out if you poped your cool downs for the first time at 15 sec, as this would result in an average of 160ap for the fight. So the panther can be better but it is based on fight length primarily, and if it favors the Panthers CD time or not (this is just pure gambling with your dps in my opinion).

Edit: Also the advantage of an extra Panther cd is reduced as the fight goes on until Berserker overtakes it once and for all.

Already did the napkin math, its never better! Being a JC this was one of the first things I checked. Morindor did the work for me

I think that is due to just how scarce patterns are in Sunwell. We've been in there since day one and so far have only had the healing ring, plate DPS chest, boomkin goggles and a single DPS robe pattern drop so far. Of course, my guild has legendary problems with RNG (still no necklaces off Supremus, going on 7 months now!) so maybe my view is skewed.

I just did 2143 dps on brutallus as alliance and without heroism (Wow Web Stats). Was in a normal ench/rogue/rogue/warrior group, and got switched for a hunter to the tank group on heroism then back in to the melee group, It was a pretty fast kill 4,48.

I just did 2143 dps on brutallus as alliance and without heroism (Wow Web Stats). Was in a normal ench/rogue/rogue/warrior group, and got switched for a hunter to the tank group on heroism then back in to the melee group, It was a pretty fast kill 4,48.

My guild has probably the worst luck in the universe regarding trash drops. We are lucky to see 3 sunmotes off trash in a week, and have gotten, get this, ZERO recipes off trash. We've been on M'uru for 2 weeks, if that helps you see where we are at. Is this level of loot typical? No. Does it suck? Yes.

I have low hopes of seeing the Plate dps engineering helm (lol like I ever have a chance of seeing the helm off kiljaeden) or the JC neck pattern.

Wow, you got really lucky on crits there. Curious, how much personal armor penetration did you have (was it the same as your armory?)? You're attacks were landing fairly hard.

For over 8.5 months now, RoS has *STILL* not dropped Dreadboots. I don't need them anymore, but I think that's a fairly significant amount of time.

906 armor penetration and using mongoose, we have imp expose armor and a survival hunter.

Technically speaking, [Stormrage Signet Ring] and [Band of Ruinous Delight] are the absolute end-game for me. I will probably forgo the band in liu of the [Hard Khorium Band] due to the neglible difference and lack of "competition" (sunmotes vs a rare drop).

another gear question: why are so many sunwell-raiding ret pallies using the SSO-rep necklace over [Choker of Serrated Blades]?

Back to seal twisting:

I went back some 10+ pages and read all the post about seal twisting/juggling but I wanted to make sure I understand how this works because when I have tried to do this, it doesn’t seem correct.

Here is what I do

1) Active a Seal (SotC or SoCom)
2) Cast Judgement
3) Cast Seal of Command
4) Cast CS
5) After my first animated swing
6) Cast Seal of Blood
7) When Judgement timer is up, judge SoB, reseal Seal of Command.
Repeat steps 4-7

I have another fundemental question

How does one evaluate Haste vs Armor Penetration. Acording to Rawr graph - Haste stays relatively linear whereas Armor penetration has an upward movement with more. Most of sunwell loot and new badge stuff is either Haste or Armor penetration.. How does Rawr equate DPS for Armor Pen and Haste?

Haste = How much DPS per X
Armor Penetration = How much DPS per X

clearly there are some strong variables like boss armor, etc ...

Honestly, there is a lot to take into account. The best I can say is to use and abuse Rawr for now... I try my best to keep it as accurate and up-to-date as possible, so trust it

Because Hyjal hates me. Also the proc is REALLY nice.

The SSO neck is great for buff sides. The Scryer proc scales with buffs, since it counts as a elemental melee attack it is affected by imp Sanc Aura, Vengence, AW, etc. and the Aldor buff of more attack power is good too. Over-itemized.


Nice that Wisdom is being buffed, BoW is 109 mp5 with the talent, over a 100% increase in effectiveness. Hammer is still good for PvP or for Holy Pally dps.

If they'd only not let it reset your swingtimer...

How did you use 7 Haste pots, and 3 AWs in 4:48?

edit: DST and Haste potions. Check

Also, early in the log it says you used AW twice in > 1sec so thats clearly a bug

Very nice work man! Now I need to drug a glaives rogue to get in BS and better totems/Unleashed Rage.

On a side note, there are ppl on our server with the ring pattern, but sunmotes are the constraint. Retribution is kinda last in line given that we dont do the best DPS in the raid, and our buffs dont scale with our performance (see shadow priests, expose weakness) so I can that being a big reason why we aren't sporting shiny bling rings. Waiting for farm =/

Haste can be the DST proc. 3 AW I have nfc though.

Now that I have 4pc with sunwell belt and boots, Hammer of Wrath is kinda fun to use on Illlidan and his fire elementals. I think I crit last night for 2500. Still bad to use when you are hitting the boss with your weapon, but nothing to sneeze at when you're trapped at range. Felmyst comes to mind.

My mana pool unbuffed is now down to 4700 due to replacement of most of the true "paladin" gear with SWP plate. If I have 440 mana per cast to throw around for a measily 1.2k non crit I'm doing something wrong.