Retribution DPS Theorycraft - Page 174

• Avitus · 05/27/08, 3:38 PM

Originally Posted by Ragnor

The nagle algorithm (Nagle's algorithm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) was turned off in the client in a patch. Testing proves it's not turned off on the server end

. People playing from outside the US on US servers will still get double the latency you would normally expect from a US server due to delayed TCP acknowledgements (600ms instead of 300ms, 500ms instead of 250ms etc).

This is slightly off topic, but I'll add something since it's pretty vital:

Does everyone (especially those with high latency) use the fix which was posted on MMO champion (and other sites) a few months ago?

It is incredibly potent, I tend to steer away from mass brouhaha but it really does work. I recently tried disabling it (about 2 weeks ago) and my ms rose from ~150 to 350. You don't need a tunneling service, half those services do something similar to this hack.

For more info, go here and apply it: New spell ranks on PTR, lag fix, comics

The next quote is a summary of what you need to do which I wrote for my guild broken down into 3 steps:

STEP 1:

If you're using WinXP, ignore this one and go to STEP 2.

If you're using Win Vista, get one of the following patches:

Vista 32: http://www.lostchapter.org/Avi/lagfi...458_v2_x86.msu

Vista 64: http://www.lostchapter.org/Avi/lagfi...458_v2_x64.msu

This patch is required to make the registry edits work since it's currently bugged in Vista, it's a known issue that Microsoft knows about and these are official patches.

RESTART after you apply this

STEP 2:

Download this file (right click -> save as) and then run it: http://www.lostchapter.org/Avi/lagfix/msmq.reg

STEP 3:

Type "regedit" in windows "run.." dialog to bring up registry menu

Then find:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Tcpip\Parameters\Interfaces\

There will be multiple NIC interfaces listed in there, find the one you use to connect to the internet, there will be several interfaces listed (they have long names like {7DBA6DCA-FFE8-4002-A28F-4D2B57AE8383}. Click each one, the right one will have lots of settings in it and you will see your machines local IP address listed there somewhere. Right-click in the right hand pane and add a new DWORD value, name it TcpAckFrequency, then right click the entry and click Modify and assign a value of 1.

RESTART after you apply this

That's it! There's a 2nd edit on MMO-Champion, but that's not needed as it's already in the regedit in my STEP 2.

Originally Posted by Sterlin

I tend to favor Concecration over exorcism because of our lack of spell hit

The conclusion I've reached about Consecration vs Exorcism priority is the following:

Exorcism has a 15 sec cooldown. You would have to mess up ~10 times with GCD in order for you to lose 1 exorcism cast in a fight. ~20 times to lose 2 exorcism casts. This long cooldown is actually a benefit.

In contrast, Consecration is always ticking, any second you waste is damage lost. Mostly it's negligible amounts, but it adds up if you mess up a lot with Consecration rotations. You can however make up for it somewhat by using higher ranks when you have too much mana.

Conclusion: Both are really relaxed cooldowns to follow it doesn't matter much which you use first. Try not to lose any exorcism casts (and as explained it's actually hard to lose one given the high tolerance to mess ups) and if you fall behind with Consecration, use higher ranks to make up for it.

Originally Posted by Trakor

I'm gonna ask our shammy to drop mana spring totem and mana tide totem as well, if possible (as i doubt fire resist totem will help much and i dont see any other use for the water totem).

On a side note, my shammy so far is refusing to totem twist. He says he got the macro, I understand it only has to be used every 8 secs and I dont see whats the big deal. Is it big mana drain for them? Or does it affect their rotation too much (due to GCDs)? I think we got the dps to kill Brutts, once everybody pots and use consumables, specially considering that sub 20% our mages and warriors dps will increase considerably, so it might not be a big requirement just yet.

There's direct contradiction in what you're saying. If he's resto, you can expect mana tide, but not totem twisting (not possible while healing). If he's enhance, expect totem twisting but no mana tide (31 point resto talent).

That aside, regardless of spec he should be sticking down Mana Spring, that shouldn't even be something to discuss.

Also if he's enhance, he has to totem twist or get another shaman, it's that simple. An enhance shaman refusing to totem twist is like a ret paladin refusing to use JotC. Twisting GoA in can raise party damage by up to 300 dps (~50 DPS for ret paladins, more for rogues, ferals, hunters, less for warriors).

There is no excuse. Mana issues? JoW more than covers that, an enh can totem twist and use shocks as much as they like and they won't even need to use mana potions (as we and every other class with a mana bar have to). GCD issues? Sorry as much as I dread to use such a cheap expression, this is a "l2p issue" or he's simply being lazy at the expense of the raid.

Originally Posted by darkknightx

I have a question about the Justicar Battlegear 2-set bonus. It reads as follows:

(2) Set: Increases the damage bonus of your Judgement of the Crusader by 15%.

Does this work with the Improved Seal of the Crusader being judged on a boss for the entire raid, or does this work only for the Party or Paladin only?

I have no evidence for this, but despite the vague description I'm pretty sure it only affects the holy damage portion, not the crit bonus.

JettJaguar · 05/27/08, 4:17 PM

I use this hack as well. However, the hotfix is rolled into Vista SP1, so you can skip Step 1 if you are running the service pack.

Also, I did not make the change to message queuing in step 2. Do you know what that is supposed to do? (EDIT: This seems to be unnecessary after Patch 2.3.2)

The changes from Step 3 are directly culled out of a KB article, so I have some faith in them.

• Zurm · 05/27/08, 4:59 PM

Originally Posted by HamSlammer

You get healed in Phase 1 of RoS? That's friggin OP ^_^

Another note about the regen capability of SoB vs. SoC is that SoB doesn't proc JoW, SoC does.

No, which is exactly why I know how much HP I loose on average...

Alborak · 05/27/08, 8:07 PM

Originally Posted by Avitus

Also if he's enhance, he has to totem twist or get another shaman, it's that simple. An enhance shaman refusing to totem twist is like a ret paladin refusing to use JotC. Twisting GoA in can raise party damage by up to 300 dps (~50 DPS for ret paladins, more for rogues, ferals, hunters, less for warriors).

Oh I love that path of reasoning. We too have a shaman who doesn't like to twist, however his reasoning is that Blizz announced they will be "fixing" twisting sometime in the future. Flawed logic to not do it now, but whatever. I'll throw this quote at him next time hes actually enhance and not forced to go restoration.

Speaking of laziness & JoTc, How much do people us it on trash? I often find myself only judging it on the first mob of a multi mob pack (Eg most of the trash on the way to kalecgos) and just keeping with my CS/JoC for the rest of the mobs. I suppose technically it would be best for the raid for me to not toss that last JoC on the current mob and JoTC the next mob, but thats requires slightly more paying attention. Am I too lazy on trash, or is it acceptable for most to not judge it on every mob.

Pyralissa · 05/27/08, 8:11 PM

I threw away the numbers a few weeks ago but I did some (limited) testing in the tier4 2piece bonus and it doesn't influence your critical rate in any way, just the bonus damage amount.

• Avitus · 05/27/08, 8:22 PM

Sticking JotC on trash is not really a necessity, I tend to forgo it mostly since it's of negligible benefit there, especially with multiple targets.

Alborak, you might want to tell your shaman that "fixing totem twisting" has been on Blizzard's agenda for close to a year now. At least long enough for us to go through all of BT and most of Sunwell and it's still there.

I don't think they'll fix it before Wotlk, or it might even go officially legit by the looks of it.

• frmorrison · 05/27/08, 8:25 PM

Justicar Battlegear 2-set bonus makes the 219 Holy damage become 252 Holy Damage. While that is nice, that is no reason to keep Tier 4 over better gear (look at Rawr).

• Zurm · 05/28/08, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by Avitus

Sticking JotC on trash is not really a necessity, I tend to forgo it mostly since it's of negligible benefit there, especially with multiple targets.

Alborak, you might want to tell your shaman that "fixing totem twisting" has been on Blizzard's agenda for close to a year now. At least long enough for us to go through all of BT and most of Sunwell and it's still there.

I don't think they'll fix it before Wotlk, or it might even go officially legit by the looks of it.

I'm pretty sure fixing seal twisting is higher on blizzard's priority. The few ret paladins who've mastered it in arena are owning it up with 8k+ swings. I'm fairly certain the PvE viability is low... at least I haven't been able to work out a stable, efficient rotation for it that I am actually good enough to keep up

• Arikah · 05/28/08, 2:34 PM

good paladins actually being feared in pvp?

Unbelievable. Call the nerf squad. This is a travesty ect...

flyingtoastr · 05/28/08, 3:15 PM

Originally Posted by Arikah

good paladins actually being feared in pvp?

Unbelievable. Call the nerf squad. This is a travesty ect...

Let's not get crazy here.

We don't want paladins becoming the gods of PvP.

Have I ever told you guys how much I love the US CM's? Even after banning me I can't help it, I want to just hug Eyonix.

In all seriousness, I was trying out Seal Twisting in EotS this weekend with SoC/SoJ and it is pretty darn incredible. I could see a hotfix coming soon (if I had to guess they'll just make SoC unable to proc anything).

• Zurm · 05/28/08, 3:20 PM

On a completely off-topic note, the proc off the Shattered Sun exalted neck (Scryer) was 12 dps on its own for Brut this week. Definitely something to think about if you are still wearing [Pendant of the Perilous].

Fadaar · 05/28/08, 3:30 PM

Originally Posted by Zurm

On a completely off-topic note, the proc off the Shattered Sun exalted neck (Scryer) was 12 dps on its own for Brut this week. Definitely something to think about if you are still wearing [Pendant of the Perilous].

Should I continue to use that neck as Aldor when my only option (at least at this point in time, who knows when Supremus will cough up the neck again) otherwise is honor/badge gear? Like I said, getting Supremus to drop that neck is like pulling teeth and I've pretty much resigned myself to using the SSO neck.

shinato · 05/28/08, 3:51 PM

I was messing around with Rawr retribution model and came to something what i find odd.

here is my build. Shinato

at the shoulders, its listing the T6 with sovereign shadowsong amethyst and inscribed pyrestone higher then 2 times inscribed pyrestone or 2 times bold crimson spinel.
you would say, 10 str + 10 crit beats 10 str + 5 crit + 7 stam...

i know buffs and enchant etc can influence the outcome but 7 stam? what about it is contributing to the DPS?

am i doing or reading something wrong or is there something with the ret model?

something else:
think it was already mentioned before but is the LotP not working or is it always active cause when i select it in the buff list nothing changes.

• Zurm · 05/28/08, 3:53 PM

Originally Posted by shinato

I was messing around with Rawr retribution model and came to something what i find odd.

here is my build. Shinato

at the shoulders, its listing the T6 with sovereign shadowsong amethyst and inscribed pyrestone higher then 2 times inscribed pyrestone or 2 times bold crimson spinel.
you would say, 10 str + 10 crit beats 10 str + 5 crit + 7 stam...

i know buffs and enchant etc can influence the outcome but 7 stam? what about it is contributing to the DPS?

am i doing or reading something wrong or is there something with the ret model?

something else:
think it was already mentioned before but is the LotP not working or is it always active cause when i select it in the buff list nothing changes.

Is that amethyst activating your meta? Because it has a sanity check (which you can disable) that ensures your meta is activated. If it is indeed a bug, send me a PM with exactly what you did to generate that issue, and I'll try my best to fix it.

Originally Posted by Fadaar

Should I continue to use that neck as Aldor when my only option (at least at this point in time, who knows when Supremus will cough up the neck again) otherwise is honor/badge gear? Like I said, getting Supremus to drop that neck is like pulling teeth and I've pretty much resigned myself to using the SSO neck.

I have no clue what the aldor one does differently... I *believe* its the same thing but holy damage... which would make it even better for a ret pally.

noth · 05/28/08, 3:58 PM

Nope! We aldor folk get an AP proc instead of a direct dmg bolt. I wear it over the pendant of the perilous and am pretty happy with it.

Cathmor · 05/28/08, 4:02 PM

Originally Posted by noth

Nope! We aldor folk get an AP proc instead of a direct dmg bolt. I wear it over the pendant of the perilous and am pretty happy with it.

I am Aldor and wore the SSO neck *instead* of the [Choker of Endless Nightmares] because of excessive +hit on my gear rendering that stat useless on the Choker. The AP proc from the Aldor SSO neck makes it one of the best necklaces available.

Aramul · 05/28/08, 4:07 PM

The Scryer version is better, however the Aldor version is still one of the top necks depending on your ArP ([Choker of Serrated Blades]) and hit ([Choker of Endless Nightmares]). [Clutch of Demise] and [Hard Khorium Choker] always outdps it however.

shinato · 05/28/08, 4:34 PM

Originally Posted by Zurm

Is that amethyst activating your meta? Because it has a sanity check (which you can disable) that ensures your meta is activated. If it is indeed a bug, send me a PM with exactly what you did to generate that issue, and I'll try my best to fix it.

ah ofcourse, how stupid of me. totally forgot about the meta and meta gem option.
its a valid reason for it now, thanks

Alborak · 05/28/08, 6:00 PM

Originally Posted by flyingtoastr

In all seriousness, I was trying out Seal Twisting in EotS this weekend with SoC/SoJ and it is pretty darn incredible. I could see a hotfix coming soon (if I had to guess they'll just make SoC unable to proc anything).

Agreed. I've been using SoJ to attempt to break spells for a few weeks. Swing timers matching up with short spell casts like FoL is infrequent, but it makes shutting down a shaman trying to be efficient with HW a whole lot easier. I would hope that they don't fix it before wrath, although the SoB twist makes me very very jealous.

And I doubt they would disable SoC procing anything as it would mess with JoW & JoL, but hey, its blizzard - you never know. My guess would be they would simply change SoJ, SoB, and any other seals that can be twisted to be calculated at the same time as SoC.

DanoPDX · 05/29/08, 12:01 AM

I have been trying search commands in the forums and on google for things like "How add items" and I can't find anything, so hopefully this question has not been asked before.

How do I add items to the bellator spreadsheet after I open it into Excel?

If I just use the dropdown menu, and select "---User Added----" and then manually edit the cell, later on the spreadsheet quits pre filling in the correct values of the gear, and starts statically using the values I am putting in.

atvrider450r · 05/29/08, 1:56 AM

Is there anyway to change the quality of gems?

For example, I was comparing upgrades for my legs, and it showed [tameless breaches] with 10 agility gems in them. Wouldn't 10 strength gems show a higher upgrade? MY stat graph shows strength is still the #1 stat for me, so I just just curious if there is a reason behind this? At first i thought about meta requirement, but they are the same color (red).

Xiras · 05/29/08, 2:20 AM

I also have a question concerning Rawr:

When I set how many points I have in which talent, and close the window, and then open the talentwindow again, it's totally reset again. Does rawr save those settings until you actually open the window again, or am I missing some sort of 'save-option' in the menu ??

HamSlammer · 05/29/08, 3:29 AM

Originally Posted by Xiras

I also have a question concerning Rawr:

When I set how many points I have in which talent, and close the window, and then open the talentwindow again, it's totally reset again. Does rawr save those settings until you actually open the window again, or am I missing some sort of 'save-option' in the menu ??

It does. The easiest way I've found to find out if you're talented or not is to check your hit. If you're missing 3% hit, your talents aren't working ^_^

---------------

Another question I've had concerning RAWR:

Where's the option for Avenging Wrath? Am I just dumb and not seeing it, or does it model it in automatically... or is it just not there?

• Astrylian · 05/29/08, 3:33 AM

Not sure about the talents or AW (I think it models AW automatically, not sure).

Regarding gems, you're free to choose whatever gems for an item you want, and make as many different gemmings of it that you want. Right click->Edit, or Tools->Item Editor...

• Zurm · 05/29/08, 9:31 AM

Rawr questions should be sent in PMs to me or Astrylian, generally speaking. There is also an entire thread devoted to it.

Ill check on AW and the talents when I get home today.