http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t17193-p...64/#post746266

I wouldn't advise this, iirc brutallus doesn't parry thrash for the current tank only. Melee can still cause swing resets.

There is no difference. You do the same cycle and have more slack time, so you aren't running your Judgement into your CSes due to latency/button press time. An easier/mildly quicker cycle is worth far more than a point in Benediction.

2/2 rather than 1/2 imp judgement is just useful for arena so you can judge Justice on that pesky druid 1sec sooner if it gets removed/trinketed etc. There's not really anywhere else great to put that 1 pt in the typical 5/8/48 or 5/10/46 pve (with a dash of pvp) spec.

Just to let ya know, Run speed meta doesn't stack with Pursuit of Justice, For PvE and PvP content I would guess ReD is the desired meta. Sorry not helping your PvE situation, just letting you know what I saw when I pulled up your armory.

Thanks for the reminder Ragnor, I'll be sure to watch my swing timer if I give it a try =P

I'm pretty sure parries from any source do not reset his swing timer:

From WoWWiki
Things in this fight you don't have to worry about:

* Parry hasting: Much like the current (post-hotfix) Mother Shahraz, a parried attack will NOT hasten Brutallus's attacks (the reasoning here will be obvious with the massive amount of damage your tanks take)

This is purely anecdotal, but when our melee group stands in the wrong spot our tanks seem to die rather quickly. Maybe I'm just paranoid, but if you need mana so badly that you're willing to gimp your DPS (parrys and blocks do no damage) something is wrong.

I don't think it's a good idea to put the demonslaying into the model. It sort of confuses the issue. Just assume that at some point later on in the fight, you'll have a few seconds between CDs to re-apply demonslaying and it'll just simplify things. Having said that I think i've forgotten 2/3 of the last Brut kills to reapply (retard).

Option C depends on when your group calls Bloodlust. This is normally 4+ mins in.

Basically it doesn't matter a lot if your last cooldown cycle is delayed to coincide with Bloodust since you're not (probably) going to get another cycle in before enrage.

so roughly:
:00 - Give 15 secs for positioning, threat and vindication stack
:15 - AW/Haste/Trinkets(/Drums if you are only LWer group or cycle starter) used.
2:15 Haste/Trinket/Drums used.
3:15 AW CD up.
4:15 Haste, Drums, Trinket CDs up.

At this point I generally wait for BL call to do use my last cooldown cycle since AW and your other consumables won't be coming up until 6:15 which is of course after enrage. So then:

whenever BL is called arbitrarily 4:45: Bloodlust/AW/Haste/Trinkets/Drums

This has an added bonus of having forebearance fading before enrage so you can do a Divine Shield/RD if things get squirrely after 6:00.

/use Elixir of demonslaying
/in 295 /w <your name here> Elixir gone in 5 sec

Will pop up a nice blob of pink text letting you know you need to re-apply. Change to 290 and 10 seconds to give yourself more time if you like.

I was unaware of the /in macro syntax. However, wouldn't it be possible to replace the whisper with another "/use Elixir of Demonslaying" and avoid having to activate the macro again?

Only chat functions work in this manner, I believe.

ok yea I'm nub

Sp thats over have downloaded Rawr but unable to find it onpen anyideas from the ppl who know. sry

When you have bloodlust and several stacked haste effects it is best to take an opportunistic approach to twisting. If you see a 1.5sec window before your next swing and CS is on cooldown, take it, otherwise just let it pass and drop an exorcism or a consecrate instead.

My weapon speed is 3.68, yours is a lot lower on armoury, so you will have less margin for error, but since I only twist every 2-3 swings and usually have a lot of time leading up to the swing I twist on anyway, I still think it is possible with that speed. 3.0 speed with a lot of sunwell gear would be pushing it. The kicker is that you have to wait for SoB to proc off your previous swing before you can do a thing or you will lose that damage, which would be disastrous. The more the haste, the smaller the window.

The person who said their dps went down when they tried twisting - that will happen. I had the fortune to practice with it while we were learning Brutallus and dying to burns etc, meaning I had a bit of a sandbox situation. It took me about 20 wipes to get any kind of a comfortable rotation going and exceed the dps I would normally get. 2085 and 2115 dps on Brutallus would certainly not be possible without twisting with my current (all non-SWP) gear, so it was worth the effort. Practicing on mobs in the blasted lands is not a substitute because they parry and mess up your timing, it gets you nowhere. Your CS and judgement will suffer a little at times, but 230k of combined seal damage on the above log speaks for itself I think.

So, for blood elves, twisting is a good way of compensating for not having a lot of Sunwell gear, but for those with 3.0ish weapon speeds it is probably too tricky to pull off a rotation.

As for concerns about mana on Brut expressed above, I use a haste pot with AW early on and then again at 4 mins with BL, but often if my mana is going down fast I actually drop a mana pot on the 2 min mark, which I find to be a pretty good compromise.

Thanks for the reply, I have the Soul Cleaver, the Harbinger's Edge and Cataclysm's Edge. Wondering if its worth using Soul Cleaver for a bigger twist window, or sticking with the hasted Harbinger or the Armor-Pen on Cat's Edge. I am leaning toward's Cataclysm's Edge, but unsure what would be the best DPS.

In last night's Brutallus attempts, I was only able to eek out 1380 DPS. Wondering what raid composition you are using.

Tonight we are going with:
G1: Prot-Tank, Feral-Druid, Resto-Sham, BM-Hunter, Holy-Pally
G2: Enh-Sham, Arms-War, Sword-Rogue, Sword-Rogue, Phd (Ret-Pally)
G3: S-Priest, Holy-Pally, Holy-Priest, Holy-Priest, Resto-Sham
G4: Elem-Sham, Lock, Lock, Lock, Lock
G5: S-Priest, Mage, Mage, Resto-Druid, Holy-Priest

But just found out the Arms-war can't make it

With that group and only doing that amount of DPS something is going really wrong. Is your positioning off or something? With all the group and raid buffs I can't see pulling less than at least 1700-1800 with your current gear.

on top of the int Draenic Wisdom also gives spirit which = mp5 , the increase in int will also effect the spirit from your food buff increasing that effect and kings blessing will also increase those by 10% so it equates to better mana regen as well (in my noob ret pally gear anyway)

I suggest you read up on the 5 second rule. Spirit doesn't help mana regeneration for retribution paladins at all, you have a ~1 second window of spirit based mana regeneration at most if you run a normal Crusader Strike/Judgement/Consecrate rotation, and most of the time it won't even tick there.

The only thing you get out of Elixir of Draenic Wisdom is a bigger mana pool, but not increased regeneration. Elixir of Major Mageblood is a much better choice than Elixir of Draenic Wisdom, as it provides 16 mp5.

ah sorry >.< i always thought it was only actual casts that interrupted it

Always prioritize CR. Can't stress is more. It have to be used as soon as cooldown ends. Delay judgement/reseal macro if you have to. Judgement is not priority - CR is.

Stop using Rank 1 Consecration, use Exorcism every cooldown (but - remember "CR first" rule). Replace Rank 1 Consec with max rank (especially with your card, it will help you a lot) and use it from time to time, chain chugging Fel Mana Pots. That will rise DPS from spell damage abilities considerably. You can experiment with other ranks of of Consecration, but using rank 1 is not really good for maximizing DPS.

That will make a good starter.

Twisting is something quite tricky, while proper timing of CR, judgements and rising damage output from exorcism and consecration are not that hard to manage and result in very real DPS gains.

It depends on your fraction. While for alliance Pallys this may be true , as a BE haste pots are superior. I did 2160 DPS @ WWScoreboard for Brutallus with only rank1 Cons and chain chugging haste pots.

I think there was some math theorycrafting done by Avitus on the previous pages of this thread (it's really hard to find, no one ever made the compilation of important stuff) that proved that fel mana pots are always better then haste no matter the faction. It might be possible that the case was true only for people using Alchemist Stone trinket though.

Point is - if with his gear and group setup he reaches only ~1350 DPS or so, obviously the problem is not related to haste vs. mana pots, but to the bad timing of CR/judgements, maybe even swings without active SoB.