Technically if you have both JoW and a Shadow Priest I think Destro Pots come out on top. :P

As for M'uru, I personally have been holy for it because my guild officers are crazy, but there is a running WWS topic regarding the fight here.

Nope, one tap puts enough of a cooldown (think about the damage a shadowbolt does) that the 3k dmg equivalent or so you'd loose to that 1.5 sec is more than the benefit of a destro pot. At least, that's the way it was given the gear level the warlocks had in my guild about a month ago. But this is a ret pally thread, so I'll drop it here.

And thanks for the link.

Whats up guys, Ive been DPSing Brutallus for a while now and kept telling myself my low dps is because of my gear, but my gear is actually pretty good and I am getting frustrated . While I know a fraps would be 100x better I just don't have the computer for it, so here is our latest brut kill wws and my armory, maybe you can see something that I cant.
Wow Web Stats
The World of Warcraft Armory
For brut i use [Shard of Contempt] and [Darkmoon Card: Crusade]
For this attempt I tried the haste pots with the avenging wraths in the beginning and end (with heroism) and didn't see a change in my dps. The only thing I can see is forgetting to pop a second [Elixir of Demonslaying]

Honestly, your dps isn't *that* bad considering your weapon, the fact that you're not a blood elf, and you got one bloodlust. I dont have the time or patience right now to do it, but I would analyze the time between your abilities.

If your "rotation" is right, you should be at something like a CS every 6.5 seconds, a judgement every 9-9.5 seconds, and whatever mix of exorcism/consecration you are comfortable with based on mana (I usually aim for 18 sec on exorcism and about 10-11 on consecration.

Edit: Also, you have WAY more expertise than you need. I'm not up to date on alliance gear sets, but you could do with a lot less, you only NEED 26 expertise rating (6.5%) MAXIMUM. The actual cap may be slightly lower.

There's certain parts of your gear that could be easily improved upon (from my perspective >_>)

- Replacing both your rings w/ Angelista's and Signet of Primal Wrath, both are easy pickups and the best rings until you need the hit from Stormrage or the Sunwell rings
- Your legs... T6 legs are generally considered worse than the other two T6 DPS plate legs with Divine Retribution coming out on top.
- Your weapon is the best for Human Paladins until you're expertise capped (3x SWP T6 + Shard) which you are. I believe Felspine is now better for you considering your expertise level.

Your chest gem is icky to me, but +Hit at the Sunwell level is left largely up to personal preference and comfortability.

Your raid also doesn't have a survival hunter or ms warrior which means you're lacking two massive raid buffs (expose weakness and blood frenzy).

Your exorcism damage total seems low, I think mines normally around double that total in the same length of time.

Thanks for the input guys. When we bring an ms warrior I can usually push mid to high 1700ish dps but was hoping that I would not have to be so clutch on that. The +hit gem on my chest is because of the incredibly low amount of +hit plate items in sunwell. I was 2-3 hit below the cap so I figured being a bit over is better then a bit under hit cap. =
Im uncontested for the next ring off twins and legs from Brutallus, even though I much rather have [Leggings of the Immortal Night]. Have to wait for our druid and last rogue to get a pair before I can roll.

Hm didn't see those parries. Thought I Was behind the boss =X

I am actually hit capped, I put on T6 legs in armory just because I log out in farming gear. I use the Leather 30hit scyer retainer leggings.

This is my first brut attempt, so what you guys are saying is I should use 2 elixers in that fight. Will do from now on

I have used both Rawr and Bellator's spreadsheet. New to it but I got the basic idea.

I was saving AW for the hero (which was around 50%~ or something), and popping fel mana pots every CD.

I'll work on my positioning but I swear I saw his ass and nothing else lol.

Sometimes Brutallus does turn around to put the fire debuff on someone whos fighting from behind and that may cause a few parry chances if I'm not mistaken. Also, why is your guild heroing half way through the fight? Heroing towards the end would seem to make more sense if you have a warrior in your group plus it allows you to pop AW in the begining and in the end.

it's you guapo!

Yeah I know he switches targets to burn, but from the WWS logs it seems more likely that Im standing to far out to his side (o well)

They swapped me out for the hero (me being the leasted geared out of all the melee), and I have no clue why the hero is so early. I'll ask them next chance I get.

So I've been dinking around on a new BElf Paladin alt that I intend to take down the Ret road, since my main is pretty much geared for Prot and Holy (and I'm a little too :effort: to put together three gear sets on one character ). I took the time to educate myself on anything I didn't know about Ret DPS, and encountered something that may be a question but if EJ is about anything, it's about lessening the amount of dumb in the world.

So! I noticed that Paladins treat Agility for +crit like all other casters do: 25 Agi for 1% crit, which means that point for point it's only very slightly less efficient than straight crit rating. However, Agility scales with BoK. Crit rating doesn't. My question is, over the long term is it worth it to stack a significant amount of +agility on a Ret Paladin? I know strength is king since it scales with a lot of things, but does the scaling effect for Agi make it equal or superior to straight crit rating?

You shouldn't stack agi, but neither should you stack crit. Our good agi to crit ratio allows us to use leather gear which warriors cannot use, adn gives us a wider choice in rings and necks than warriors as well. Crit and agi are almost equal, but strength is better than both. So no, don't stack agi. But don't be afraid to pick up an item with agi on it, either.

I recently started working on M'uru as Alliance Ret and on the damage meters I have been falling around 1400-1500 dps if I'm in a Druid tank group, but was lowest 3 dps tonight using a resto shaman for wf and no druid.

My priority has been CS >> Judge >> max rank consecrate (until only one add is remaining) while using hammer/repentance as interrupts on the mage

I was wondering if anyone knows anything I should be doing differently and would appreciate any advise.

Consumables
Flask of Relentless Assault
Roasted Clefthoof
Super Mana pots
Demonic Runes
BoSac on tank whenever I have a chance to put it up

There is some discussion here about M'uru as ret here:
www.retpaladin.com; View topic - Are you doing M'uru as Ret?

Basically most people are doing ~1500 dps also.

We don't run a Ret paladin for Muru. It worked out better for us to replace me with a 2nd DPS warrior for the adds. We use a prot paladin for phase 1 who puts up imp SotC on phase 2/entroprius so we still retain that buff. At this point, I could be swapped in but based on our initial raid comp a second shout/whirldwind made more sense.

I run as ret for Muru, in tank/SR, on the adds. They don't deal much melee damage, you block the entire melee hits, and have more threat than pure prot would with sanc aura and vengeance. I use the standard 41/0/20 PVP spec for this fight, and run my 3s after the raid to save on respecs :P

This isn't ret dps, but you keep the judgment benefits for Entropius.

Hello all. I've read this entire thread a few times over the course of its making but I was hoping someone could answer a simple question I believe was addressed somewhere within this beast.

Has it ever been fully resolved if haste rating reduces the effective proc percentage of SOC?


Given the precentage chance is based off of a 7PPM/Base weapon speed.

I know it was assumed to be the case but hasn't testing proven this to be untrue?

Removed.

The effective % chance per swing to proc SoC is reduced by haste, simply because you have more swings per minute, with no increase in procs. SoC will always proc 7 times per minute, no matter what your swing speed is. The only anomaly is WF. It has been agreed upon that WF can proc SoC. which brings many peoples PPM up to 8.4.

No matter what your gear is SoC will be 7 PPM unless you have WF, in which case it'll be closer to 8.4 PPM. I don't have links to the testing done, nor do I take credit for this knowledge. It is somewhere in this thread though.

I think if I remeber correctly its a percent chance to proc that is modified based on your weapon after haste to average out to 7 procs per minute (almost exactly what you said except its an average of 7 procs per minute, not definitely 7 procs per minute).


On another note, Muru has been nerfed so hopefully this week my guild will try me again back in the melee group.

I'm shocked any guild would have moved a ret pally off dps and into a healing role for muru.

Looking at the monday parse from our guild on muru Vindication accounted for approximately 1M hit points worth of damage saved from one side of berserkers vs the other side. That's not even counting Furymages.

In fact, vindication is so strong that on one attempt where I was completely broke on all my items(poor communication lead to a pull before repair); although my personal dps dropped from ~1450 dps to 160 dps my side was still able to maintain its pace and down the adds with 3-5seconds to spare(this attempt is why I went and looked at the dmg totals comparing the two sides).

Even if your ret pally was naked...as long as s/he was spec'd vindication and preferably had some drums of battle to use, you could learn/pace the pre-nerf muru just fine.

So, I took a month off of raiding and want to come back strong. I was hoping for some advice on a few item slots, since I seem to get different results from Rawr, MaxDPS, and the old Bellator spreadsheet.

The World of Warcraft Armory

Currently, my guild is 4/5 and 3/9. I don't do a regular Kara badge run, but I can usually get in one every other week or so. What should I focus on replacing with badge gear first?

Angelista's Revenge is a great ring, but I'm curious if anyone thinks the minor DPS increase from the pants or the slightly larger (but further off) increase of the BoH is worth it, especially if in the month or two it takes me to farm badges we come close to an Archimonde kill.

My helm kind of sucks, and those are my PVP trinkets. I run with an Hourglass and a DMC:Crusade. One of these days I'll get a Shard drop.

(I also have boot enchant mats on me, so I'm finally getting those done as well.)

Here's a recent MH run, from the week before our first Azgalor kill: Wow Web Stats

What can I do to take it to the next level?