Retribution DPS Theorycraft - Page 2

galzohar · 10/16/07, 10:28 PM

Wouldn't a rotation based on CS whenever it's up and judging only when GCD is up in order to reseal instantly be better than all the rotations listed? Unless I'm missing something just by glancing at the numbers on the rotation spreadsheet CS>keeping SoC up>judging, but the highest DPS rotation there could judge more often with 8s cooldown on judgement while still keeping that order of priority.

So I would add a rotation to the sheet that CSs whenever it's up and judging as often as you can as long as the seal's GCD won't delay the CS.

GSH · 10/16/07, 10:34 PM

Sigurd's DPS cycle spreadsheet seems to be missing a case.

In his first cycle, he occasionally Judges during the CS global cooldown. This reduces SoC uptime. Given that SoC does more DPS than Judgement (224 DPS vs 100 DPS by his numbers), wouldn't it be better to delay the Judgement by 1.5s and keep SoC uptime at 100%?

The case where Crusader Strike has priority, 8s Judgement, and 100% SoC uptime is not represented.

galzohar · 10/16/07, 10:37 PM

^That's exactly what I was saying.^

DarKNecross · 10/16/07, 10:40 PM

Checking it-
Okay, here's what I figured out (and I corrected a couple math errors from the previous ones)

They're so incredibly close, I'd actually probably use the 5th rotation instead of the 4th, since it has a bit more wiggle-room. So yes, the 8sec Judgement only judging when it won't interfere is probably the best choice.

Cromfel · 10/16/07, 10:44 PM

Yeah that was the original cycle. Not like it is hard to add to the list for comparison. But is it better to loose fraction of SoC uptime and delay JoC because of that? You have time window for reseal between AA timer anyway. So the effect should be extremely minimal.

I suppose this is the case.

Prinsesa · 10/16/07, 10:52 PM

Is this supposed to be a Retribution Paladin Megathread? I've often wondered how I should gem my sockets as Ret. I placed a [Relentless Earthstorm Diamond] on my meta socket, while the red sockets are getting [Bold Living Ruby], the yellow sockets are getting [Inscribed Noble Topaz] and the blues are getting [Sovereign Nightseye].

In any case, I'm *extremely* excited about the incoming threat reduction, which pretty much seals the deal for the already crotch-kickingly awesome changes.

GSH · 10/16/07, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by Cromfel

Yeah that was the original cycle. Not like it is hard to add to the list for comparison. But is it better to loose fraction of SoC uptime and delay JoC because of that? You have time window for reseal between AA timer anyway. So the effect should be extremely minimal.

The general algorithm for DPS is to use your higher DPS abilities before your lower DPS ones. JoC is lower DPS than SoC. Therefore, prioritizing JoC over SoC does not make intuitive sense.

flyingtoastr · 10/16/07, 11:13 PM

Are there any BE pallys available to get some sort of DPS comparison between SoB and SoC? I know SoB is superior in general, but by how much?

DarKNecross · 10/16/07, 11:39 PM

Here's the OpenOffice friendly version of the Sanctified Crusader spreadsheet:
Sanctified Crusader Contribution Calculator(.ods)

bellator · 10/17/07, 7:43 AM

Nice thread,

Cromfel, there's actually a slightly later version of the dps model (version 8) here:-

Free file hosting by Savefile.com

I plan to include different dps cycles into the model to make it more realistic in terms of damage output (as it assumes everything can be used on CD)

I also plan to include a mana analysis tracking overall mana over time. damage per mana of abilities etc.

But these are still all in the works, so don't pester :p If anyone can tell me how i make the spreadsheet open office friendly, will do so

Cromfel, for more dramatic effect, you man want to rewrite:-

"DPS Difference 11% less with R1
Mana consumption 55% less with R1"

as:-

"DPS increase using R6 = 11%
Mana consumption increase using R1 = 125%"

johsgrd · 10/17/07, 8:00 AM

Originally Posted by flyingtoastr

Are there any BE pallys available to get some sort of DPS comparison between SoB and SoC? I know SoB is superior in general, but by how much?

I could test it. What are good mobs for testing this on? Are the ones in Blasted Lands any good for this? (I assume they have very low armor, but for comparison between SoC and SoB it doesn't matter, I guess.) Oh, by the way, being a blood elf, I haven't cared so much about gearing for spell damage, so it's below 200.

bellator · 10/17/07, 8:31 AM

Originally Posted by DarKNecross

Checking it-
Okay, here's what I figured out (and I corrected a couple math errors from the previous ones)

They're so incredibly close, I'd actually probably use the 5th rotation instead of the 4th, since it has a bit more wiggle-room. So yes, the 8sec Judgement only judging when it won't interfere is probably the best choice.

I'm not sure if this has been said or is taken as granted, but the readon why the two cycles are incredibly close is that they are in effect the same cycle. Both allow CS to be used on cooldown and give 100% SoC uptime. The only difference is the JoC rotation. The "9 sec judgement" uses JoC every 9 seconds. The "8 sec Judgement, judged only when GCD up" has varying times between judgements, but the average time between judgement is exactly 9 seconds.

The minor "total damage" difference between these two is due entirely to the first 1.5 seconds (starting off with either CS or Judgement/SoC). After this first 1.5 seconds the dps of the two cycles is exactly the same.

Thus it is not worth getting the second point in improved judgement as you will never be able to judge on average once every 9 seconds without loseing either SoC or CS damage

bellator · 10/17/07, 8:33 AM

Originally Posted by flyingtoastr

Are there any BE pallys available to get some sort of DPS comparison between SoB and SoC? I know SoB is superior in general, but by how much?

If you check out my model, it shows both SoC/SoB dps. SoB produces about 5% more dps than SoC.

ein3360 · 10/17/07, 8:34 AM

I've been playing my retadin for roughly 5 months now. My question is as the title states: which pally melee skills are affected by critical strike rating, and which ones are affected by spell critical strike rating? Normally I just try to go as overhaul as I can with the regular critical strike rating, mainly due to the fact of my uncertainty about which skills are considered spells and which are not. If someone could clarify this for me, I would be greatly appreciative of it, because I'm really looking to maximize my effectiveness, as everyone likes to do.

Cromfel · 10/17/07, 9:35 AM

Originally Posted by ein3360

I've been playing my retadin for roughly 5 months now. My question is as the title states: which pally melee skills are affected by critical strike rating, and which ones are affected by spell critical strike rating? Normally I just try to go as overhaul as I can with the regular critical strike rating, mainly due to the fact of my uncertainty about which skills are considered spells and which are not. If someone could clarify this for me, I would be greatly appreciative of it, because I'm really looking to maximize my effectiveness, as everyone likes to do.

Melee Crit Rating:
Hammer of Wrath (Melee hit rating)
Seal of Command (Melee hit rating)
Judgement of Command (Spell hit rating)
Seal of Blood (Melee hit rating)
Judgement of Blood (Spell hit rating)
Crusader Strike (Melee hit rating)

Spell crit rating:
Exorsism (Spell hit rating)
Holy Wrath (Spell hit rating)
Judgement of Vengeance (Spell hit rating)
Judgement of Righteousness (Spell hit rating)
Eye for an eye (Spell hit rating)

Is that all?