The rare Bold Scarlet Ruby is +16 STR. With 15% Divine Strength and 10% BoK, that's "only" 40 AP.
The epic Bold Cardinal Ruby is +20 STR. With the same as above, that's only 50 AP.
Unless I'm missing another scaling factor, the AP Dragon's Eye is still better than a STR regular gem.
Yeah in that case the special AP one is worthwhile. I just didnt kow the valie of the normal spic st gem which is why i put the "depending on" bit in
Originally Posted by Valerys
The +haste gem is worth it too, unless I missed some major mechanics changes?
I'm sure you havent missed the major mechanics changes, but just not realised their implication on str/haste.
Firstly Judgements now scale with Strength, Divine Storm scales with strenght. Since these are both on CD's not based on weapon speed then haste has no effect on them. This means the str to dps factor is increasing a lot, but not the haste to dps facor.
Secondly, in terms of itemisation, 1 Str is still going to equal 1 haste rating in Wrath. However the amount of haste rating to get 1% haste has changed, doubled in fact.
In TBC, the haste gem would be worth it for SoB palas, but with the two effects listed above, strength is a far more effective stat than haste for a ret paladin (rough maths puts it over twice as valuable), meaning the haste gem will not be worth it.
Heck, with the increased dps of palading, the new Divine storm, even agi/crit rating have pulled above haste now, making haste the least desirable stat in wrath (spell damage excluded)
Thanks for the explanation Bellator, makes sense. Does this mean that other ratings (like crit) will also lose value compared to strength?
It's a lot harder to determine how the Str/Crit relationship will change compared to how it is now.
On the one hand the value of Crit Rating will decrease due to the changing of the crit rating to %crit ration
On the other hand, the increased base dps (from better weapons etc), and the introduction of judgements and Divine storm into the paladins rotations will have a more positive effect on the crit to dps ratio than the str to dps ratio thus increasing it's value.
How these two balance out is really hard to calculate, but I would guess the end result will be roughly what we see at the moment of about 1 Str = 1.3Crit rating (which may make the special JC gem worthwhile). But we will have to wait until dps mechanics and level 80 gear is known until we get a clearer picture.
What we can estimate based on what we know now is that the relative value of all the stats will be:-
WE & Hit > Str > Crit & Agi > Haste > SpDam
Armour pen will have to fit in there, but with the change to the way that works and the unknown armor values of lvl80 bosses its difficult to guess. But seeing as white + CS is the only damage effected by it and seals, judgements and DS are not it will probably be in the haste to spdam range.
Edit: What is annoying is that atm, for a SoB paladin, both Haste and Armour Pen are reasonble effective. With them being far less effective at 80 (the way it stands now), it devalues the SW ret loot quite a bit since these items are packed with haste/armpen, and make them only marginally better in wrath than BT etc loot
One other big factor as far as crit scaling goes is SoR/SoV. If either (or both) of those seals end up our primary dps seal then crit takes a big trip to the dump due to them not using crit on the seal portion. (The 5 stack autodamage on SoV does, admittedly, but who cares) As such crit will not have as strong an impact on us. If it does end up the case that SoB/SoC are our regular dps seals then crit's stock rises substantially.
Given that SoR procs on CS and Dstorm it should be delivering 1250 dps or so with all raid buffs at 4500 AP. I have seen 3500 dps thrown around as a good guess for ret paladin damage currently with SoR so it stands to reason that crit rating and agility will fluctuate by as much as 50% in value based on which seal we end up using.
If the current domination of SoR does not get shut down by the time wrath goes live I certainly expect to see Ret pallies with nothing but hit, expertise and str socketed and enchanted. The other stats just look terrible in comparison, though obviously an AP gem to hit a socket bonus might be worth it.
+7 Str (27 str gem)
+3.4 AP (54 AP gem)
+20 Str (meeting meta gem requirement assuming it's still the best meta)
Total: 28.34 Str (=71.7 AP after BoK)
For future simplicity, the new going rate for Str -> AP with BoK is 2.53 btw (2* 1.1 * 1.15)
Hit and WE I'm still not sure of since both of these have caps. It will heavily depend on how gear combos look at level 80, if you can get expertise capped without gems (as is in sunwell atm) or hit capped through other kinds of gear they become worthless.
I'm not disregarding their worth, just saying it's much harder to quantify.
Overall, we're looking at: ~71.7 AP and a "potential" 7 WE and 7 Hit
Now to work closer to a final conclusion, we can narrow it down to (in order of best to least good):
1. Blacksmithing: 101.2 AP and "speculated" additional Meta socket for armor smiths worth 21 crit rating and another 3% increased crit damage (I personally believe this is too good to be true)
2. Alchemy: 90 AP
3. Enchanting: 80 AP
??. Jewelcrafting: ~71.7 AP and a "potential" 7 WE and 7 Hit
4. Leatherworking: 30 AP and 18 crit rating
5. Skinning: 25 crit rating
??. Engineering: 340 Haste rating for 8 seconds every (?? unknown cd). Also unknown whether it replaces glove enchants.
??. Tailoring: 1000 ArmPen executioner proc from cape. Unknown whether it replaces cape enchant, procrate, proc duration. Impossible to model without knowning more.
Unknowns (feel free to answer/discuss):
1. I'm assuming 80 AP will be worth more than 25 crit rating (lets also not forget additional SP gained through Sheath), but this is completely based on feel, I haven't sat down to break it down yet. Bellator/others, comments? It doesn't seem easy atm to compare the two without knowing more about level 80 gear, but anything semi-conclusive towards 80 vs 25 CR?
2. I couldn't place jewelcrafting since it really depends on that "potential" WE/Hit. Any comments about that? Any suggestions to bump it up?
3. Leatherworking is probably going to be losing out in the long run, it's the only profession out of all listed that will be useless for when we offspec, so probably not the most optimal to take.
4. For ring enchants: Is 80 AP definitely going to be better than 40 haste at 80 gear, can we say that conclusively 40AP is the best ring enchant?
5. More about the engineering glove enchant (any engineers on beta who can test? even simple things like whether it overwrites enchants)
6. More about the tailoring cape enchants (any tailors on beta who can test? even simple things like whether it overwrites enchants)
As we get more of this settled (beta people with professions, get busy) and hopefully some of these answers can be dug up, I'll be consolidating this further into hopefully something resembling a conclusion.
Blizzard only said they were contemplating an extra meta as an armoursmith bonus - no guarantees.
If they do add it, they could prevent duplication - you have to use 2 different metas. That makes it a powerful buff without the insanity of double +% crit damage, +% block value, +% mana/int (for our Prot and Holy brothers), etc. I could see us using a melee crit meta and a spelldam meta with the new coefficients.
Regarding the 80AP v 25Crit rating, 80AP will definately beat that (as well as beating the 30AP/18CR from Leatherworking)
As for WE/Hit. Until we see lvl80 gear it's hard to say for certain, but my guess is that in well itemized gear (ie stats split over str/crit/we/hit, it wont be possible to cap both in the early instances without either a) gemming or b) taking items with we/hit really stacked onto them. Thus I personally feel you can add on another 7str (average of 0 and 14) to the JC.
JC also has the potential of providing some best in slot items such as hard khorium chocker. But this is no certainty.
Overall I would say BS+JC is the best max-ret dps. Though personally I will be going Mineing+JS (since i have no farmer alt and love the money JC brings in :p)
I think the meta thing is still up in the air. According to the interview the other day, they want to put it in to remove the disparity between the numbers of armoursmiths and weaponsmiths, but they admitted would have a hard time balancing it. So we just have to wait to see if they can shoehorn it in.
Useful discussion that's been started anyway. Personally I'll be dropping LW for BS (keeping enchanting) and nothing will make me happier. I leveled it willingly without being asked to, as I guess many of you did for SWP, but Paladins with LW just feels silly.
Based on a few responses, I'll update/narrow down the list a bit.
I'm going to keep out things that are just speculation for now, also it's obvious we can cut out Skinning/LW since they're somewhat below the "top contenders".
Note, while it might seem somewhat wishy-washy, we're going to estimate jewelcrafting worth.
1. Blacksmithing: 101.2 AP
2. Jewelcrafting: Estimate equivalent to an average of 90 AP (between min 71.71 AP and a max of 71.71 AP + "potential" 7 WE and 7 Hit on top)
3. Alchemy: 90 AP
4. Enchanting: 80 AP
I'm going to have a hard time dropping Alchemy, but I dislike that the perk is only there while flasked/using elixir ;/
Remaining unknowns:
??. Engineering: 340 Haste rating for 8 seconds every (?? unknown cd). Need to know: Replaces enchant? Cooldown?
??. Tailoring: 1000 ArmPen executioner proc from cape. Need to know: Replaces enchant? Proc details (proc rate, internal cd, proc duration)?
-"Multiple profession perk exploit": I've touched on this earlier, but as this is a very general issue, I'll continue this part at the WotLK profession thread.
Seals of the Pure
Divine Str
All good pve talents in the ret tree
Imp Kings 10% stats, 3% AP
Blood Frenzy 4% physical
Misery 5% SP
Unleashed Rage 10% AP
Imp Battle Shout 687 AP
Imp Might 525 AP / 53 SP
Imp Spirit 10% spirit to SP (approx 25)
10 % spellpower boost from Demo Lock (assuming 160)
5% Ilotp
New WF totem 20% haste
Str of Earth totem 99 STR/Agil
Flametongue totem 84 SP
MOTW 52 all stats
Moonkin Aura 5% spellcrit
Imp FF 3% hit
250 AP from Expose Weakness
30 str food
DKs probably contribute more buffs/debuffs somewhere but they are in such flux (and I don't know what the optimum specs are at all) so I am ignoring it.
I will use Avituus' gear but assign him roughly 10% more stats and ratings to reflect some upgrades and give him a free 10 dps on his weapon. I don't know if this is perfect but it is rational I think. I assume that the 3% crit damage meta is being used.
Str 741
Agil 268
Haste 234
AP (+67 from gear upgrade)
Hit rating 102
Crit rating 465
Expertise 93
Weapon 3.6 speed (I know his is 3.4, ignoring that) 158.7 dps
I will assume SoR used, Judgement used every 8.5 s, DS used every 10.5 s and CS used every 6.5 s to account for a nonperfect rotation.
Modified numbers after raid buffs are accounted for:
Str 1166
AP 5227
Agil 461
Crit rating 465
Hit rating 102
Haste 234
SP 1806
So, SoR does (.05*5227 + .1*1806)*(3.6/2.72)*.946*1.05*1.15*1.15*1.02 = 783 dps on autoattack
SoR on specials (.05*5227 + .1*1806)*3.6*.946*1.05*1.15*1.15*1.02*14.95/60 = 537 dps on specials
JoR (.45*5227 + .73*1806)*1.71(hit and crit modification)*1.05*1.15*1.15*1.02/8.5 = 1047 dps
DS 1840*1.05*1.15*1.02*1.35(hit and crit modification)*1.06/10.5 = 303 dps
CS 1840*1.1*1.04*1.15*1.02*1.35(hit and crit modification)*1.06/6.5*.76 = 413 dps
AA 532*1.06*1.15*1.02*1.06*1.35(hit and crit modification)*3.6/2.72 = 1252 dps
Total dps: 4335 dps
Edit: With these new mechanics Avituus' gear might not be the best example since obviously str is the monster stat and his has haste/crit/etc. Either way Sunwell raiders don't exactly have the choice, but it is something to consider.
BIG edit: I moved all the detailed return on stat calculations to my post further down the page.
I havent gone through the calculations you use, but i'm fairly sure there is some miscalculation. Str being twice as good as expertise and four times as much as crit doesnt make much sense.
I modified my paladin dps model with the new mechanics and i'm getting hit and expertise are a little better than str which is a little better than crit.
Can you explain where you got your crit/str/hit to dps %numbers from.
I may however not respond for a while as i'm on hols in the morning till tuesday.
Sorry to derail off of the professions but a potential problem I see coming up is a mana issue. Divine storm is supposed to cost 20% of base mana, but the future gearing of ret is heading towards full warrior gear, correct? Which means no int to boost mana pool higher than the standard horrible amount we get. Unless judgement of wisdom and judgements of the wise is going to have super high returns i dont see divine storm taking a large role in our dps due to its ridiculously high cost. Anyone else see this issue or am I missing something important?
Avitus, the answers to your questions can be found by reading the Blizzcast transcript, or MMO-Champion's summary.
Right, Rocket Boots and Parachute Cloaks...
Uh huh, all that stuff… well that stuff still works, but the stuff that we did break like the Mind Control Helmet and everything. We’ll probably end up un-nerfing some of that, or adding in upgrades. Another cool thing we’re doing for Engineering is instead of getting Rocket Boots you’re going to just enchant your boots to become Rocket Boots. So you don’t suffer from this whole “Well I have to use a blue item, to get this cool effect.” Basically we have the tech to add on-use enchantments to things now, so, we’re going to be really running with that. Things like a Parachute Cloak enchant, or maybe you could shoot webs from your gloves, but there’s a little bit of a tradeoff too because that’s still your primary enchant on that item. If you put Rocket Boots on your boots you won’t be able to get the move speed or anything.
They also refer to the changes as adding "profession-specific enchants" to gear, so I think it's safe to assume the Tailoring enchants won't stack with anything else.
I heard Sigurd scored an infinity on Rock Band and ascended to heaven.
Although that still leaves proc rate duration and CD /internalCD to be determined so for the intents of giving it a point value its still not very usefull.
Sorry to derail off of the professions but a potential problem I see coming up is a mana issue. Divine storm is supposed to cost 20% of base mana, but the future gearing of ret is heading towards full warrior gear, correct? Which means no int to boost mana pool higher than the standard horrible amount we get. Unless judgement of wisdom and judgements of the wise is going to have super high returns i dont see divine storm taking a large role in our dps due to its ridiculously high cost. Anyone else see this issue or am I missing something important?
Ret paladins are becoming mana batteries, jow and jotw are currently showing high returns, easily enough to use judge/cs/ds on CD.
I havent gone through the calculations you use, but i'm fairly sure there is some miscalculation. Str being twice as good as expertise and four times as much as crit doesnt make much sense.
I modified my paladin dps model with the new mechanics and i'm getting hit and expertise are a little better than str which is a little better than crit.
Can you explain where you got your crit/str/hit to dps %numbers from.
I may however not respond for a while as i'm on hols in the morning till tuesday.
It does depend a ton on which seal you use. I modeled seal of righteousness using level 80 coefficients for expertise, hit, crit. If you model seal of Command/Blood you will get a much higher return on crit obviously and a lower return on str since str -> AP -> SP drives SoR damage totally and crit/weapon damage has no impact on it. If you used level 70 coefficients on the ratings your numbers would be drastically different than mine also.
Crit is really poor because you already have so much of it and your seal makes up over 1300 of your 4300 dps and cannot crit. Also when you multiply str by 1.1, 1.15, 1.1, 1.03, 2 to get your final AP number it just takes off to the moon because of all the multipliers together. Here is the work I did to get my original estimates in more detail:
Hit rating:
100 hit rating = 3% chance to hit. That changes our hit term from 94.6% to 97.6%.
SoR goes from a hit term of 94.6 to 97.6 which is a 3.07% increase or 40.6 dps.
JoR hit term is 1.71 which goes to 1.74. This raises its damage by 1.71% for 18.1 dps.
Since DS, CS and AA have the same crit/hit term we raise them all to 1.38 instead of 1.35. This is a 2.17% increase for 42.8 dps.
So overall 100 hit rating gives you a 101.5 dps increase, approximately 2.3%.
Hit is good, but because it has no effect on crit it is less of an increase than you might think. For spells they have to hit in order to be able to crit but now judgements are on the ranged table which is like the melee table in the sense that it is one roll so + hit does not affect your number of crits at all, it just increases your noncrit damage.
Crit rating:
100 crit would raise crit chance by 2.22%.
No change to the SoR terms at all.
JoR term goes to 1.71 + 2.22*1.28 = 1.738 hit/crit term thus a 1.63% increase in JoR damage. This gives 17.1 dps
AA, CS and DS go from 1.35 to 1.35 + 2.22*1.03 = 1.67% increase in dps for 32.8 dps.
So 100 crit rating gives you 49.9 dps or roughly 1.15% increase.
100 Str would give 287 AP and 86 SP.
The SoR base damage goes from (.05*AP + .1*SP) 441.95 to 464.9 for 5.19% increase which gets us 68.5 dps.
The JoR base damage goes from (.45*AP + .73*SP) 3670.5 to 3862.5 for 5.23% increase which is 54.8 dps.
The CS and DS base damage goes from 1840 normalized to 1889, 2.67% increase, 19.1 dps.
The AA damage term goes from 532 to 552.5 for 3.85% increase for 48.2 dps.
Total dps from 100 str = 190.6 or roughly 4.4% increase.
Quick Summary: 100 of each stat gives:
Str 190.6 dps
Crit 49.9 dps
Hit 101.5 dps
So by this math Str is TWICE as good as hit/expertise rating and 4 times as good as crit. I am gonna say OUCH for non Str stats. This is pretty interesting, because it means that any nonred socket is either godawful garbage we use to get a strong socket bonus or red gems get rammed in everywhere and socket bonuses be damned. If we are getting socket bonuses in some cases then JC should be all right because we can use a str gem to get the socket bonus but if we are just ignoring socket bonuses anyway then the only gems a JC should use are the pure STR and AP gems.
Edit: Moved the new part of my calculations from the earlier post to here for clarity.
It allows you to select different cycles / seals. Is currently set with SWP gear with level 80 ratings etc.
After making changes you can go to the tab 'Graph' and run a 'Graph Calculation'. which models how dps increase as you add item points to the various stas. After this is run, the table on the main page 'Strength Equivalency' shows the comparative values.
Even for SoR I am roughly getting WE = Hit = Str which are twice as good as Crit.
Can I ask how you got your "hit term" which you are modifying when you get hit rating, as I cant see how hit and WE in your calcs can be so invaluable especially with the dps being so high.
ps. theres a circular reference somewhere in the file i uploaded, let me know if you find it, been searching for it
pps. will catch up with this thread on tuesday. Have a good weekend all
Sorry to derail off of the professions but a potential problem I see coming up is a mana issue. Divine storm is supposed to cost 20% of base mana, but the future gearing of ret is heading towards full warrior gear, correct? Which means no int to boost mana pool higher than the standard horrible amount we get. Unless judgement of wisdom and judgements of the wise is going to have super high returns i dont see divine storm taking a large role in our dps due to its ridiculously high cost. Anyone else see this issue or am I missing something important?
I did some napkin math on that a few weeks ago, and it seemed to indicate that we're actually mana-positive, even if JOTW ends up only giving a third of the mana return. The only way it could go horribly wrong would be if JOTW does not always select us as one of the three mana return targets.
Of course, this was only factoring in a straight up CS, DS and Judge combo, but considering there was an excess of 150+ MP5, I don't think there's a lot to worry about.
We won't have INT, yes, but we'll have to look at our mana bar like less of a Mage's and more of a Rogue's: It doesn't matter if we don't have a lot of reserve as long as we retain the means to fill it up very quickly.
It allows you to select different cycles / seals. Is currently set with SWP gear with level 80 ratings etc.
After making changes you can go to the tab 'Graph' and run a 'Graph Calculation'. which models how dps increase as you add item points to the various stas. After this is run, the table on the main page 'Strength Equivalency' shows the comparative values.
Even for SoR I am roughly getting WE = Hit = Str which are twice as good as Crit.
Can I ask how you got your "hit term" which you are modifying when you get hit rating, as I cant see how hit and WE in your calcs can be so invaluable especially with the dps being so high.
ps. theres a circular reference somewhere in the file i uploaded, let me know if you find it, been searching for it
pps. will catch up with this thread on tuesday. Have a good weekend all
The hit term is basically the combination of hit and crit. Since melee and ranged used a 1 roll system an example hit table would be:
1-5 miss
6-65 normal hit
66-100 crit
This toon has 5 % total miss chance, 35% crit chance. This means 60% of his swings are regular hits. Since he does his regular damage 60% of the time and does double damage 35% of the time you can basically figure out his average damage and multiply by (.60 + .35*2), which is 1.3. This 1.3 is the hit/crit term I have been using, though obviously the numbers in my examples are slightly different. If this character got an extra 5% to hit his term would look like (.65 + .35*2) = 1.35. If he got an extra 5% to crit instead his term would look like (.55 + .40*2) = 1.35. With 200% damage crits 1% hit = 1% crit.
A complication is that the 3% crit metagem and the 25% more critical damage on judgements/DS makes the term trickier to calculate. For a white attack with the metagem it would look more like (.60 + .40*2.06) = 1.374 and judgement would be something like (keep in mind it has 25% more crit and 25% more crit damage) (.35 + .60*2.31) = 1.736.
I just now noticed that I did not take the extra 25% crit damage on DS into account in my earlier calculations. This means that the DS damage should be higher, though it has such a low contribution to overall dps that this won't change the results significantly.
If you don't trust my numbers, just think of it in this way: 100 hit/exp rating gives 3% more hit chance. That is way less than 3% damage overall since it does not affect your number of crits at all, so 2.3% damage increase per 100 seems like it has to be close. That 2.3% is going to be something like 100 dps if your dps is a little over 4000, which both of our models seem to agree it is. Hit/exp will give a toon with this level of gear very close to 1 dps per point.
100 Str gives 287 AP after all raid buffs, which makes 86 SP. I will redo my math for each term just using this increase in AP and SP we get from 100 str. The normalized damage from 287 AP is 67.9 damage
So, SoR does (.05*287 + .1*86)*(3.6/2.72)*.946*1.05*1.15*1.15*1.02 = 40.7 dps on autoattack
SoR on specials (.05*287 + .1*86)*3.6*.946*1.05*1.15*1.15*1.02*14.95/60 = 27.6 dps on specials
JoR (.45*287 + .73*86)*1.71(hit and crit modification)*1.05*1.15*1.15*1.02/8.5 = 54.7 dps
DS 67.9*1.05*1.15*1.02*1.35(hit and crit modification)*1.06/10.5 = 11.4 dps
CS 67.9*1.1*1.04*1.15*1.02*1.35(hit and crit modification)*1.06/6.5*.76 = 15.2 dps
AA 20.5*1.06*1.15*1.02*1.06*1.35(hit and crit modification)*3.6/2.72 = 48.3 dps
You sum these and you get 197.9 dps from 100 str.
No matter how I do the numbers str is simply right around twice as good as hit. As a note, I used my original DS calculation here, not the correct one with the 25% more crit damage factored in. It won't change much at all, (in fact it favors str over hit when crits get better) but I will change all of my DS damage totals asap.
I have a question: On your spreadsheet you have SoB doing more damage than white attacks. How is this possible? Your seal gets to hit on specials but they go off much less than autoattacks and the seal only does something like half of a white hit (since white hits get reduced by armor). There is no way that SoB should be doing 30% more than white attacks. You should look into that and figure out what is up with it.
Sorry for intruding on the lvl 80 theorycrafting but I have some questions regarding lvl 70. Is there something similiar to Yo!'s simulator for enhancement shammies? ie an establish EQP value system? Or is Rawr the only way to go...
Can vindication proc judgement of wisdom ticks? In particular would it proc wisdom ticks during a boss fight where the boss is immune to the talent?
Can vindication proc judgement of wisdom ticks? In particular would it proc wisdom ticks during a boss fight where the boss is immune to the talent?
Skipping out on first question, there is some RAWRer around to answer it.
On the quoted part - this was fixed. Vindication no longer triggers JoW procs (at least I read so). brings out another question, has JoW chance to proc on every consec tick, or only once per consec? By watching my SCT, I would say that the chance is per tick and that it procs quite often. However, someone told me it procs only on first tick. Thanks for answers.
Vindication has NEVER procced JOW. Whenever a Ret Paladin encountered a WWS where his JOW proc rate was through the roof, we only thought it was Vindication, but it has since been proven that extra JOW procs are caused by a second Judgement:
If a you do not "own" the Judgement of Wisdom on a target, but you have your own Judgement (of the Crusader, of Light or of Justice), then each auto-attack you make has 2 chances to proc JoW. One for the plain auto-attack, and another for refreshing the non-JOW Judgement.
Sorry for intruding on the lvl 80 theorycrafting but I have some questions regarding lvl 70. Is there something similiar to Yo!'s simulator for enhancement shammies? ie an establish EQP value system? Or is Rawr the only way to go...
It is a valid question, especially considering it may take a while for Rawr to be updated when 3.0 comes out.
Rawr will give you point values, as well as Bellator's spreadsheet (it may be a few months old, but it still works). Note he has made a Beta spreadsheet as well.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
On a related note, a question to people playing in beta: what do you think is the best PvP profession for ret? Is it still engineering? Here by PvP I don't mean just arena, but BGs and world PvP as well.
-Currently I just modeled boss armor as 25% damage reduction. Armor pen is on the sheet but has no effect. Since we don't know the armor for bosses yet I think this is a rational representation since that is about the armor value TBC bosses had left after sundering, FF, etc.
-The yellow boxes are to put in updated stat values. Any extra stats entered there will give you updated dps numbers and such on the top right and show how much dps you gain from those extra stats as well as how much more mana you will generate from Judgements of the Wise.
-All blue boxes are intended to be used for your base stats and raid buffs. At the moment I used Avituus' stat set but gave him 10 more dps on his weapon and 10% of all stats gear supplies. I assumed a level 80 version of Savagery for his enchant since modeling Mongoose is more trouble than it is worth atm. Also, I am pretty convinced that with these new mechanics and using SoR that Mongoose would be vastly inferior anyway.
-The delay boxes for your abilities just reflect how long you go between hitting each of those buttons, my spreadsheet does not do rotations yet, you will have to figure it out on your own.
-Some of the raid buffs like Demonic Pact and Expose Weakness are my guesses as to your average benefit. They may vary. Feel free to make any raid buff 0 to see the effect of removing it, or just make up any number you want.
At first glance you are probably going to say that 1500 JoR damage means that JoR will be doing 12k on average, which must be wrong. However, if you actually sit down and multiply it all out that is exactly how much it ends up doing. Judgements of the Wise is hilariously over the top at the moment, 4500 mp5 divided into your party is idiotic. In fact 100 more str will give you 180 more mp5 to your party, which is clearly a monstrous scaling issue, though certainly it is not the only out of control scaling issue with Ret atm.
I will be putting a better version up soon that dynamically updates the values of each stat as you change your sheet, but for the moment you have to just put in 100 of a stat in the test section and look at the dps change.
If you don't want to download it the DPS values for 100 of various stats are:
Armor pen is terrible, we do mostly magical damage now.
Enjoy! If you find any errors or things make no sense, please post and let me know.
Edit: My previous posts with this math were mostly right, but had a few small errors. The conclusions stand, but this sheet should totally replace them since they were not precise.
Edit again: Uploaded sheet again to fix hardcoding error, no numbers on sheet actually change.
Edit yet again: Updated spreadsheet link to latest version.
08/15/08, 10:04 AM
