For PvE ret I would go with this:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...00000000000000

On another note, does anyone know how the damage reduction bypass on Sanctified Wrath works? I assume the armor is ignored, what about resilience? Partial resists? Blocks?

The wording is indeed quite unusual (I don't think I've read anything like this in anyother ability / talent)

Damage reduction is provided by armor for physical damage, and magical resist for magical damage. But since there is no holy resistance items, it leaves only armor penetration, but then, why didn't they specifically stated it that way ?

What are we missing ? Shields of any sort are not damage reduction ability, but rather damage absorption, so I don't think it would apply. Same thing for immunity abilities.

Maybe it will work against some talents like Cloak of shadows and cheat death, that are worded as "reduce damage taken" or "increase resistance".

What is more confusing is the announce of the content patch "in the coming weeks". As I'm not a natural english speaker, I can't really grasp the subtlety of that term. Does it mean in the next couple of weeks or could it be more ? Because with all the things that are broken now on the beta, I don't really see how they could make the skills and talents changes live in a near future, or we're in for a rather troubling game experience.

It could be anywhere from next week to just before release. Though the cynic in me expects it to happen on week 38, just before WAR release.

Seems there will be one annoying point missing :P


I was leaning towards dropping 1 point from Crusade and maxing out Divine Strength. Also possible alternative is to drop a point from Righteous Vengeance.



1% damage vs 3% str vs 5% crit damage to Judgements and Divine Storm

I can see Avitus having a problem with 1 point, because he needs Seal of Casino. However, Valerys, surely you don't need it? for a PvE spec anyway.

Sorry to interrupt the WotLK discussion, but I have a question regarding [Blackened Naaru Sliver].

Is it worth getting as a paladin? I believe with a ~3.00 attack speed, the proc could stack fast enough, if seal damage and judgements are able to stack the proc.
I tried using Rawr, but if I remember correctly, Rawr models the proc for feral druid attack speed, therefore showing incorrect results and making it far superior to [Dragonspine Trophy].

I'm not sure if I should go for this trinket, instead of keep farming DST.

Why not dropping 1 point from Pursuit of Justice? Still keeping Seal of Command as our "I want to do good damage without taking none" Seal (if SoC stays as second best dps seal after Blood/Martyr as it is at the moment) and having all the DPS talents

Something like this Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

I want to PvP too. :P And wasn't SoC better scaling on beta? Furthermore, I hear SoB with Divine Storm hurts.

Actually, I assume Alliance will be getting their version of it too along with the talents.

I would not drop points from PoJ, IMO it's one of the best talents in the tree. Dropping 1 from Crusade might work.

Alliance get SoB at level 66, so there's no longer any need to specify whether the spec is for Horde or Alliance. The question is: do I PvP and do stuff like fighting Prince often enough to justify putting a point into Seal of Command? And it would probably be answered: "yes".

Umm, won't this build include the new Seal scaling, having us all using SoR or SoV/SoCorr anyway?

I would think before 3.0 the devs would fix SoR so it is for Protection/Holy and SoB is best for Ret raiding, but for PvP (which I predict will be very popular in 3.0) you want SoC, not to mention I prefer SoC for dailies.

Assuming some dps abilities still use spell hit in 3.0 (in Live that is JoC, JoR, Cons, Exorcism), having hit rating affect spells makes hit rating more useful.

The lose of Precision isn't that bad, especially with better Ret talents.

Re: Dropping one point from the 3.0 build

If you are a paladin in high level content, I would think you are swimming in crit, so I think I will go 2/3 Sanctified Seals for a better tradeoff vs. Divine Strength/Crusade/POJ

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...00000000000000

Yea the spec I linked was with the assumption that they'll fix the current "Seal mess" we have.

If of course they don't, then yea, probably ditch SoC and use SoR/SoB.

I've been out of the game/loop for a few months, just loosely reading wotlk stuff. I see they are going to release the talent changes before the expansion, so my initial question is, since i don't really know the changes yet, should i spend the next month or so of playing picking up any different gear? My armory is The World of Warcraft Armory. I can probably only do up to kara for the next month. Is SoC still going to be the seal to use as ret? If not, what will be and what is the new stat importance?

Thanks!

Gear priorities didn't really change for Ret, except perhaps Haste getting more value from Alliance finally getting SOB and a little more emphasis on STR since it adds spellpower too (not that it's already our best scaling stat).

With the discovery of SoR not gaining Spell Power from Sheath of Light, doesn't that put SoB squarely in the winner's circle for DPS?

How do you compensate for the lack of hit rating in swp? I currently do not have access to the BT cloak and neck, as the guild only raids it occasionally for sellruns (in the previous guild I passed on them for other dps), so I'm really wondering what to do. Obviously I'd drop skinning for engi if the goggle plans dropped, but only one so far.

I've been considering going for the hard khorium battlefists, since we'll lose the 3% hit once 3.0 goes live anyway.

There is several things that you can do.

1) Use a Boomkin. (Imp FF)
2)Hit Food
3)You are correct, you can pick up the Hard Khorium Gloves. These are a dps increase however it is not as large as the Immortal Dusk Gloves I believe.
4)Surefooted
5)Use the Hit Rating helm enchant *(edited in forgot about this)

Frankly between those options listen, that should accommodate approx. gloves(23) + food(20) + surefooted(10) + Imp FF(3%) = ~70ish hit rating i believe maybe even a little more which should help considerably

If you do not use a druid then you are in a tough spot and are GOING to need to go BT. Your helm upgrades concern me a little bit (crown of anestarian(sp?) comes to mind).


In additional consideration, when we lose precision that brings the hit you need up to 142 I believe. Which I dont have to tell you that your way off from that. I suggest the Stormrage Signet if you can get your hands on it. The hard khorium battlefits if you have sunmotes around, Teron's back or Unforgivable Sin (+10 hit gem) etc. I think you see where im going with that.

Just for the record, in PvE Surefooted is inferior to Dexterity to boots. You don't use the snare resist mechanic in any meaningful way, and you gain 10 hit rating while losing 12 agi. Compare gemming for that 10 hit, and you end up with more possible stats by enchanting dexterity and gemming hit than enchanting surefooted and gemming something else. We're somewhat unique in that way due to PoJ obsoleting Boar's Speed/Cat's Swiftness enchants.

As for the gloves, I'm pretty sure in a situation in which you need the hit, for a BE paladin(or Alliance post 3.0), Hard Khorium Battlefists will outperform Immortal Dusk.

I was merely speaking for the sake of Hit Rating Jay, All the available options are not optimal however they are possible depending on what else is available to him. Like I said in my post, I do not know how far they are into SW which makes a difference when picking selections. As far as I know until your hit/WE capped there really are no better stats regardless of how you get them. While Dexerity maybe a better increase in dps when you have say 90 hit and only need 5, if you are at 80 hit, that extra 10 hit rating is going to be more effective than .5% crit

Gemming for Hit instead of Str is foolish if you only need that 10. the Crit loss should never outweigh static Str (assuming vengeance is constant) as far as I am concerned and Rawr's Stat graph is concerned

Just a note: Don't be afraid to gem +hit. Until capped (at least for now), hit is the most valuable stat there is.

I know as a rule of thumb we generally advise to get hit from sources other than gems and stick to gemming str, however in many cases, specifically high itemlevel sunwell items, gains can be had by not replacing these items and just switching in some hit gems.
People who normally ignore socket bonuses and just gem full out str (red gems) can also maximize gains by netting a few socket bonuses now. For those of us who do go for socket bonuses, obviously replacing inscribed pyrestones will be the best gain.

With WoW 3.0 things should shift somewhat away from hit and more in favor of Str, however all indications are towards hit still being ahead until capped (it's impossible to tell anyway until numbers are finalized).


For reference: Once the WoW 3.0 patch hits and with the loss of our Precision talent, the new hit cap will be 142 hit rating (141.84), which means we'll need to cram in ~47 more hit rating than we have now.




Actually if not hit capped, Surefooted wins by a landslide. It's also more worthwhile (by a very tiny fraction) to get surefooted over dexterity than replacing a 10 str gem with a 10 hit gem.

Personally this is what I advise:

1. Look for hit items, compare if better than gemming your current items with hit. Decide.

2. If not hit capped yet, gem yellow sockets with hit, try to net socket bonuses on the way

3. If not hit capped yet, get surefooted

4. If not hit capped yet (shouldn't be the case), replace red sockets with hit gems

You could probably add +hit food in there somewhere, but personally I try to avoid needing consumables to reach the hit cap. Statistically you gain nothing by using hit food over gems (it's 20 hit for 20 str food, same as gems in worst case scenario), but have the burden that you always need to use food if you don't want to miss, making sure it doesn't run out and you don't have it if you ever get combat ressed. To put it bluntly: It's an added annoyance with no gain.


This is actually a very interesting reminder. Up until now I had completely disregarded Hard Khorium Battlefists since they are inferior to Immortal Dusk/Thalassian Ranger Gauntlets even if not hit capped while using SoC.

Due to Haste being worth so much more with SoB, they are actually the best gloves in game if you need the hit and can use SoB. This makes these gloves the no.1 item on any SW retadin's wishlist for WoW 3.0.

When comparing Surefooted to Dexterity, I'm considering 3 things. I have 2 slots for gems/enchants, and 3 options. 10 str, 10 hit, 12 agi. One of the slots must be hit due to the problem we're considering, so you're left between 12 agi and 10 str. 10 str is 11 str due to Divine Strength, so it's a choice between 11 str or 12 agi(both scale with kings and the difference is minute). 22 AP and .5 crit are certainly close and I eyeballed .5 crit being superior, but I didn't actually spreadsheet it. I was mostly considering the number of itempoints you could cram into a set, where enchanting dexterity and gemming hit gives you 2 more then the reverse case.

Of course I will most likely have to gem hit and enchant surefooted once 3.0 rips Precision from my clinging fingers, so the discussion is somewhat moot, since the choice will be between gemming hit in red sockets and losing good bonuses or enchanting surefooted.