Here is the new Paladin dps spreadsheet version 1.8. Read the last few pages of the thread to see what has been added to it:-
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I have also put together a rough version of the spreadsheet which can be used to model SoR:-
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Notes:-
This version models in SoR/JoR/Consecration. It includes some extra +dmg items, some gems/enchants etc. However it is far less complete than for SoC items.
There is the Imp Judgement of Righteousness talent and wrath of air totem included and an option in the play style to include max rank consecration spamming.
Please Note that when setting up buffs/consecration spam pay attention to which dps group you are in. If you are in a melee group with WF etc etc then you shouldnt turn on max rank consecration spam as you wont have a shadow priest to support you. If you are in a caster group you can put consecration on but must turn off things like WF/battle shout etc etc. Putting everything on is an unrealistic option and will make SoR dps look far greater than it is.
Conclusions for model:-
When comparing a SoR gear build to a SoC gear build, it can be seen that being put in a caster group and allowed to spam max rank consecrations is better for the SoR build then being put in the melee group. Both significantly increase dps but the caster group slightly beats the melee group option.
When it comes to effectiveness of str in SoC build to +dmg in SoR build, the str option does have a slightly bigger impact on damage. However the difference is a lot closer than i imagined.
However in terms of output dps, the SoC build did beat the SoR build by 200-300dps depending on buffs etc. This is due to all the reasons i mentioned earlier. Scaling (whilst not as bad as i thought) did play a role. Then theres the raid/group buffs problem and itemisation problems mentioned. With better itemisation i'm sure this could be reduced to about 100-150 dps difference, but for the moment, SoC is still the superior build
Play around and have fun with the SoR version, but please be careful as if you set up buffs/consecration usage unrealistically, you will get unrealistic SoR numbers.
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Djardin, have a play with the new model. A few points regarding your post....
Originally Posted by Djardin
Reread my post, my math doesn't include vengeance or melee/spell crit...
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I'm sorry, but the first quote of mine you used had the line "Even if other factors such as crit % modifiers etc etc were included"....i did read your post properly and included these factors.
Originally Posted by Djardin
It's true there is less spell damage buffs than there is attack power ones. But it doesn't change the fact that SoR can do more damage than SoC, even with less buff.
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The fact that SoR can do more damage than SoC with less buffs is irrelevant as you have to take into account all the buffs the paladin will have which will make SoC superior to SoR.
Originally Posted by Djardin
And the whites hits/CS of a ret pala using SoR and the whites hits/CS of a ret pala using SoC gains as much from attack power buffs.
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This isn't entirely true, as a SoC build will have more melee crit, which will have a multiplicitive effect on the white/CS gains from AP.
Originally Posted by Djardin
Even better, SoR scales with haste, SoC doesn't. And I'm almost sure it's the same with WF. (My theory is that WF can proc SoC but it doesn't increase the number of SoC proc you're getting per minutes, there is no restriction for SoR).
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Here's one big problem with the SoR build. To be able to use consecration, you need a shadow priest in your group which means you won't get WF. Even if SoR is better with WF than SoC you lose the big chunk of consecration damage through not having a shadow priest .
Originally Posted by Djardin
If you itemize hoping you'll get some buffs, you're nerfing yourself when you don't have them. And it's especially true for a ret pala. When a SoC based ret pala is pulled out of the melee group and doesn't get his BS, WF, SoE, UR ... he does crap damage. A SoR based ret pala put in a melee group would probably do a bit less damage than a SoC based one, but he would do a lot more in every other groups.
So, if you're always in a DPS warrior/enh shamy/feral druid group as a ret pala, then you're VERY lucky and you should use SoC ... if not, then maybe it could be interresting to be flexible.
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Firstly whilst a SoC based paladin might lose more outside of a melee group than a SoR paladin, if inside the group the SoC paladin was doing more dps then there is no reason why outside of the group (even after the bigger loss) he is still doing the same/more dps than the SoR paladin.
Anyway, it's besides the point. Being put in a melee group isn't "Very lucky" it's sensible. Any end game raid leader will know that ret paladins gain an awful lot from being in a melee group (probably more than any other class). If there isnt a spot in a melee group the the ret paladin, then you dont bring the ret paladin to the raid as there are far better dps choices available who don't scale as badly outside the melee group
Originally Posted by Djardin
- T4/T5/T6 and now the arena S3 gear have all spell damage and melee hits on some parts
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2 pieces of S3 gear have hit. They also have wasted points in resiliance and excessive stamina. 1 Piece of lightbringer and 2 pieces of crystalforge have hit. And all of tier 5/6 waste points in intellect/strength and have large portions of crit which isnt ideal for SoR. Not saying these items are all bad, but far poorer itemised compared to some of the Str/Crit gear that can be found
Originally Posted by Djardin
- Check some of the new 2.3 talents:[indent]- improved JoCr added in the base spell ... it gives around +40 spell damage, almost useless for SoC ... kinda good for SoR.
- +3% spell crit far in the ret tree and +3% spell hit in the prot tree but accessible for a ret pala ... useless for JoC, imba for JoR.
- vengeance duration increase to 30 seconds ... (so useless for a SoC pala with 30% crit, so usefull for a SoR pala with 20% crit)
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My model above is based around 2.3 talents. So the marginal extra benefits these will give SoR compared to SoC build has been included. I do think you're exaggerating the effectiveness of these a little however.