Stop trying to get us nerfed Cromfel. We still need an AP>spdmg talent or some kind of mana regen (like crusade=5/10/15% of our strength is converted to mana 5, or 1/2/3% of holy dmg done is converted to mana).

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@Cromfel
Please dont feel offended :-) . I am absolutly pro paladin dmg and will get a try as ret in my BT raiding guild after 2.3 is out. I also do 1000 - 1100 dps with my mostly merc gear in blasted lands but if you compare your damage to other classes I want to be sure that you have considered everything.

7 parries seem to be not very much for such a long fight because you should have pretty high parry rating vs this mobs. Is this number sure or just a guess?
which rang of conc did you used? 50 damage/tick without JoCr is very high with rang 1 you need almost 500 spelldmg+vengeance+aura.

Argavine, I think your 500 spell damage to get ticks of 50 is a little off. Remember than JotC damage does not suffer from downranking at low levels (but doesnt get % modifiers). Assuming he also have vengeance on most of the time to get rank 1 to tick for 50 only needs jotc and about 175 spell damage

Yes with JotC it is no problem (i get 52 ticks with 195 spelldmg + veng + aura) but without it you need pretty much spelldmg and Cromfel wrote that he didn`t use JotC.

Ah completely missed that sorry. In that case 50 does seem quite high

I used Bellator's dps spreadsheet to calculate how much imp.windfury would increase my dps over not having windfury. I used both my current gear and my desired gear with buffs you would expect to see from a shaman, rogue x2, fury warrior group. In both cases, the difference was around 100 dps. This seemed low to me so I ask, "Does this reflect reality?" I would love to see any WWS that shows the difference.

Couple issues with the Spreadsheet as I've seen.

Stalker's War Bands dont currently have a Gem slot, and dont appear to be receiving one on PTR.

When selecting 'None' for a Gem slot plops a huge 16 int and 17 str instead which did affect the DPS output at the top.

Also are there any plans to add Vindicators Scaled/Plate and Neck/Rings?

I've never even seen a Heroic Pot before, but chugging haste pots is a huge DPS increase for both alliance and BE pallys. I would assume that a BE using SoB would get more out of it though. As for Heroic Potions, the extra 140 AP seems nice, but having no experience with them I can't say whether or not they're better than haste pots.

Hmm, isn't Insane Strength pot better than those 2? 120 str>all

Yes it is, but I for one have had a huge struggle to find anyone on my server who could make these... especially a pot master. Nobody seems to have the recipe, but I can find tons of people with haste/heroic pot recipes. I would assume that would be the best choice though. If anyone has some math though that would be great

I suppose the hardest part about calculating that would be that the haste pot would scale based on what gear you had, so it would be slightly had to get a solid number on the dps increase with that.

I recently got ahold of Shady Dealer's Pantaloons - Items - World of Warcraft and i was wondering how big of an upgrade if any Leggings of Divine Retribution - Items - World of Warcraft would be. Also, how do i get it to just embed the item link in a post to where you can hover over it and see it?

Adding mana/5 gem choices to the spreadsheet would be beneficial to help ppl to see how long they can last with just a few gem changes. Maybe consecration/exorcism added in the calculations as well?

I'd love the day when I don't have to include mana pots into my rotation and could use haste instead =P

[ item ] and [ /item ] (without the spaces of course)

As for the pants, the Divine Retribution will get you more AP, but not by a large margin. The extra crit from the Dealer's is very nice as well. Both look like good choices, though I always lean towards plate over leather simply for PvP (thats just me).

Would like to see some unique gems added to the spreadsheet: red +24 AP and yellow +12 crit (jewelcrafter only gems), as well as 5 str/4 agi and 5 crit/2 mp5 (unique drops from heroic SV).

And speaking of gems, you couldn't change standard gems to rare quality ones? Don't think the majority that use the spreadsheet is in BT/Hyjal yet.

I'm jewelcrafter myself so adding those unique as mentioned above would be nice

When I noticed the Mp5 stats that JoW applies to the raid, I was taken aback by how much mp5 it adds! I knew it was good, but the numbers really hit it home that having JoW up all the time is a wise move. (I never get to say "Wisdom is up, wand for mana" like in the MC/BWL days)

However, do we have any numbers regarding JoL as well? In fights like Void Reaver where multiple people take dmg in melee, having Light up would be a nice benifit. I'd be ok with crunching the numbers myself, but I'm really not familier with shot rotations on all of the classes etc. The search function didn't show anything up either.

Thanks much!

EDIT: Alrighty, new to this forum so I just found the "Search this thread" button

Looks like we have a few HPS numbers for JoL, but no theory crafted ones like JoW just yet, but it looks like someone is working on them, so I'll just be patient and grateful

Since the proc rate is the same, you can go by the values restored and scale them. IE: since we know that with Wisdom someone gets 74 mana per each successful hit where it procs, and Light grants 95 health, the player would gain 28% more health than mana.

So let's say that the JoW mp/5 is 200. The JoL number hp/5 would be 256.

Does that sound feasible?

The problem with theorycrafting JoL numbers is that your attack speed can vary greatly from class to class and even player to player depending on your weapons and gear. Its hard to say "a Fury Warrior will get X Hp5" because of that fact. JoW is much easier to calculate because no matter where you go every fire mage will have a 3 second cast Fireball (ignoring haste of course, which I always do when I'm figuring out these things).

But if you want some numbers for fairly typical weapon speeds:
1.5 seconds = 126.67 Hp5
1.8 seconds = 105.56 Hp5
2.2 Seconds = 86.36 Hp5
2.6 seconds = 73.08 Hp5
3.3 seconds = 57.57 Hp5
3.8 seconds = 50 Hp5

All assuming perfect proc rate (40%), no misses, etc. This is also single weapons, if you're wielding two 1.5 speed weapons you would theoretically get double the amount of Hp5. Just as with Judgement of Wisdom, the faster you're hitting the mob the more you're getting out of it.

You reminded me that I need to do the warlock JoW still. I'll get on that asap.

Quick Edit:
Unless anyone has some evidence proving otherwise JoW is a 50% proc chance whereas JoL is a 40%.

I always assumed both JoW and JoL had 50% proc chance

Thottbot World of Warcraft: Judgement of Wisdom
Thottbot World of Warcraft: Judgement of Light

Judgement of Light - WoWWiki, the Warcraft wiki

I think we might need to test this out.

Does JoW have a chance to proc off each tick of DoT spells?