Only initial cast. Same with channeled aoe spells (Havent tested, basing on Conse) and channeled dd spells (except arcane missile).

[quote=flyingtoastr;533979]

All assuming perfect proc rate (40%), no misses, etc. This is also single weapons, if you're wielding two 1.5 speed weapons you would theoretically get double the amount of Hp5. Just as with Judgement of Wisdom, the faster you're hitting the mob the more you're getting out of it.

QUOTE]

Is there any off-hand reduction on JoW and JoL procs when DWing? (the same way an off hand has a greater chance to miss, it has a less chance to proc JoW/JoL?)


Thanks for the info on the weapon speeds, once we make sure its 40 or 50%, we'll be able to nail it down for sure the final numbers.

Wow Web Stats
Wow Web Stats

Looks like JoL is about a 50% proc rate. Sample space is small but it shows that its a lot closer to 50% than 40%.

New JoL numbers based on the 50% proc rate:
Weapon speed:
1.5 seconds = 158.33 Hp5
1.8 seconds = 131.94 Hp5
2.2 Seconds = 107.95 Hp5
2.6 seconds = 91.35 Hp5
3.3 seconds = 71.97 Hp5
3.8 seconds = 62.5 Hp5

Assumed perfect 50% proc rate, perfect 100% hit chance, no haste effects, etc. Duel Wielding should give (theoretically) the sum of the two weapon's effects (e.x. a 1.5 and a 1.8 will give 158.33 + 131.94 = 290.27 Hp5).

For the theorycraft numbers I'm pretending you are so perfectly hit capped you have a 100% chance to hit with every attack. Therefore the numbers would be the same for MH and OH weapons. In practice you will see less procs from your OH due to the greater inherent miss chance with off-handed weapons.

Is there anything remarkable what we should add to the 1st post? Is it lacking something obvious? If so, what stuff?

My time is limited on creating new stuff on the original post. I will be doing more after patch 2.3 hits live but it doesnt mean other Paladins cant submit important stuff to be added. Please post here or send me PM if you have anything you feel worth adding. I will check this topic on daily basis, so updates will be added as soon as people submit informative blocks.

Enhancement Shaman weapon speed range from 2.6 to 2.8 base if they're high end raiding and know what they're doing. They also have so much crit as to keep their 30% Flurry haste bonus up at all times. Enhance Shaman end game tend to be very high crit with fully raid buffs. I sit at 40-50% crit in raids personally. You need to take into account their haste for their weapon swings.

WF weapon imbues for a DW Enhance Shaman is at a 36% proc rate, not 40%.

I do not need to nor plan to include haste effects into my examples.

I have said it numerous times, and frankly I am getting sick of repeating it. Haste effects are not included in any of the Judgement of Wisdom calculations. It complicates things without due reason and, especially for effects like Flurry (where you uptime varies greatly from player to player depending on your gear level), results in wildly different numbers for each person.

The purpose of these numbers was never meant to be any more than basic baseline examples, as in "if you attack at this speed using these attacks you can theoretically get this kind of regen." If you would like to know exactly how much mana you will be getting from a judged target I encourage you to work it out yourself or PM me and I'll be happy to do it for you.

As for WF, I will change that next time I update the list.

Perhaps I missed it amongst the thread and it hasn't had a chance to be updated on the original post, but is there a copy of the spreadsheet that contains the new values for the season 3 gear and perhaps includes Season 3 weapons? I am intrigued to see numerically how much more the change in itemization would help the DPS of SoB PvE Paladins given the increase in strength and drop-off of SD.

Elzam,

There is a revised version coming soon (i know it's been a while since the last) which has lots of new items statistical analysis etc. Will try and get it out today or over the weekend at latest

Hi Guys,

Sorry for the delay with getting a new version of this sheet out. However the good news is that every time I make what i deem to be a substantial addition i give it a new version number. This is Version 23, so hopefully lots of new goodies to please you (and likely some minor bugs that I missed).

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There are lots of minor changes. Here are the major ones:-

1) Database Changes:-

A) The hidden item database has now had a makeover which should make it easier for those brave enough to mess with it to figure out how it works without creating loads of error messages.

B) When selecting items in character sheet there are now splits by plate/mail/leather etc

C) Tier 6 leather is included (hopefully tier 4/5 will come later)

D) Season 3 gladiator gear, honor gear and weapons are included

E) JC only gems and some unique dungeon dropped gems are included


2) Character Sheet Mechanics Changes - ***Big Changes***

A) There is box near the top of the sheet labelled "Spare Mana Dps (SoC)". This box assumes the fight is 10 minutes long. Based on the playstlye of JoC/SoC/CS, mana regen, and mana pool is calculates:-
i) "Mps Spare" - how much extra mana per second you have to use on consecration/exorcism
ii) "Cons (Min)" - It attributes spare mps to this ability until it would be used on cooldown and calculates the dps is provided
iii) "Exorcism - Any extra mana spare is attributed to exorcisms and it's dps calculated
iv) "Mps Left" - it then tells you if you have any mps left after using consecration and exorcism on cooldown

B) The very top "Total Dps" box now lists the SoC dps from a normal rotation, the extra dps you get as explained in 2A), and then the grand total of these two combined

C) When using the Item calc, it now compares items based on the Total Dps including consecration and exorcism, thus giving Int/Mp5 items more weight.

D) Just above the Graph Calc section is a button labelled "Str/Crit POI". This stands for the strength/crit point of intersection. This is basically a bit of fun and tells you (based on your current gear etc) what AP you need to have in order for 1 Crit rating to be more valueable than 1AP.


3) Character Sheet Additions

A) Weapon expertise has been added and is included in the graph at the end (it's the dog's)

B) Haste/Heroic/Insance Strength pots have been added. Remember you can only have one, and there is the Mana pot option in the "playstyle" section as well, so dont have 2 pots active....thats cheating

C) Mongoose and Executioner have been added. These are base on 1ppm, with 40 hits per minute (this is accurate based on SoC/JoC/CS/WF spam playstyle). However it might overvalue them slightly if you dont spam JoC etc. Having them based on actual ppm made excel run very slowly (and also is difficult to model for mongoose seeing as the haste proc will change the hits per min)

D) "Best of the Best" has been relabelled "Warrior Gear". If anyone asks "Why is Lightbringer included in 'Warrior Gear' i will personally give you the 'wow experience' and show you what an axe to the face does to your health! :p


4) Minor Changes

A) Stalker's War Bands have had blue socket removed

B) Selecting "None" for a gem slot won't give you free Int/Stam

C) Lots of minor tweaks i've probably forgotten about


5) Important Notes

A) The "Item Calculation" tool still bases dps value based on socketing all strength gems and not correct gems to get set bonus. It's more often the case that strength gems are betetr than correct gems. Whilst not always true the way item socketing it done makes it a complete pain to socket correctly per item. The end results would probably be the same just slightly different value

B)***Important*** The model still assumes that extra damage caused from JotC can be effected by % modifiers even though this is not the case. When all the dps calculations were set up this was not known and the way they were all set up makes this minor thing a major pain in the ass to change. However please note that since this is a static value then the results shown within the spreadsheet are stil all valid relative to one another, just that the overall dps might be smarginally higher than you can expect. But this is only a small difference so please dont let it dissuade you from using this tool.

Anyway, Enjoy

Bellator

Vindicator and Veteran's Scaled bracers have Y sockets instead of y sockets. (the Y doesn't work)

Has anyone ever tried modeling the personal DPS loss for using [Nightfall] versus the potential gain of the proc?


I'm curious if there's a reason to try to GM that item back.


Compared to the [Hammer of the Naaru] I'm using now, it has .1 less AS (less WF/SoC damage), 52~ less weapon DPS, and no stats.


On the flipside, if I could boost the DPS of mage/locks by 15%, say 50% of the time...

Has anyone figured out how to get Bellator's sheet working with the german version of Excel 2003 ?
When i'm trying to use the buttons "Show Detail" "Strength Gems" "Correct Gems" or "Analyse Items" i get this error message : "Laufzeitfehler 1004 : Die Methode 'Range' für das Objekt '_Global' ist fehlgeschlagen" (which is roughly translated : "Runtime error 1004: The method 'Range' for the object '_Global' failed.").
I've reinstalled Execel, installed the service packs and updates but the error message persists, with all versions of the sheet.

Thanks in advance

I gave a solution once, go to Options->Transition and check "Transition formula entry".

The proc has maybe 5-15% uptime, the proc rate scaled down with level. I think it's worth something like 2% overall increased magical damage on the target.

Basically, it's no longer worth it unless your personal dmg is less than like 300 DPS in your real suit.

Okay, so small question about weapons. Between the blacksmithing weapons and instance drops up to say SSC/TK, what would the better choice be to use? A couple of the people in my guild are saying the the [Hammer of the Naaru] is a better choice than the [Lionheart Executioner] or [Stormherald]. What are your views on the subject?

[Lionheart Executioner] is the winner for pve. The proc is up for about half the time, so it's like having a static 50 str while fighting. The proc is also altered by kings.

BS weapons are far superior. Technically by stats LHE is better, but that extra stamina on Stormherald comes in very very useful on many fights. Personal choice in my opinion, you can't go wrong with either one.

Rechecking

Noticed that the mana/5 gems also provide me with 8 +hit

Not that Im complaining if that happened ingame but I think it might be a mistake for the spreadsheet.

Thanks very much to everyone for the sheer bulk of work done for this thread. It's really helped me make the decision whether to take the plunge of ret... at least at this rate I dont see it overly supportive enough to give up my first/second place on healer charts. Maybe just one more really cool thing that is deep in the ret tree will change my mind.

Some more minor things on the spread sheet to be anal retentive about:
Justicar Greaves Spelling

Gem bonus for weapons doesnt seem to either be displaying properly or working correctly -
possibly due to the change to 4 gem locations?

Vindicators Scaled Bracers and Pendant of Triumph both need Lookup Info for Loc and MyLoc

Items to consider Including:
Spellsword's Mark of the Redemption (Quest Ring)
Amani Mask of Death (Badges - Plate)
Pauldrons of Gruesome Fate (Badges - Plate)
Bloodthirster's Wargreaves (Badges - Plate)
Chain of Unleashed Rage (Badges - Plate)
Eternium Rage Shackles (Badges - Plate)

So I was in SSC tonight on Vashj, (Pre-2.3) and had noticed that i had 34% Glancing Blows.

Is that normal? IT seemed to be a huge damper on my actual DPS, and I was wondering, how, as a paladin, do we get that number down?