That's useful because as a ret pally you pretty much never use consecration every 8 seconds. You might say... every 12 or so. Hence, for every cast, you get like 25% more damage out of it. Its usefulness is dependent entirely on how much you use consecration however, and that's up to each individual ret pally.
Seems you misunderstand me, here's a simple example:
1. No glyph of consecration: 8 ticks for 100 damage each = 800 damage total
2. With glyph of consecration: 10 ticks for 80 damage each = 800 damage total
How is that a DPS gain, unless tick damage stays the same, which is not mentioned in the tooltip.
About rawr 2.0.1 - Darkmoon card: Crusade has lost all its stats
Seems you misunderstand me, here's a simple example:
1. No glyph of consecration: 8 ticks for 100 damage each = 800 damage total
2. With glyph of consecration: 10 ticks for 80 damage each = 800 damage total
How is that a DPS gain, unless tick damage stays the same, which is not mentioned in the tooltip.
Pretty sure there will be extra ticks for those 2 seconds, thereby increasing the damage, since that's how all such effects work (e.g. old shadowpriest talent increasing the duration of SW:P).
Seems you misunderstand me, here's a simple example:
1. No glyph of consecration: 8 ticks for 100 damage each = 800 damage total
2. With glyph of consecration: 10 ticks for 80 damage each = 800 damage total
How is that a DPS gain, unless tick damage stays the same, which is not mentioned in the tooltip.
About rawr 2.0.1 - Darkmoon card: Crusade has lost all its stats
Tick damage does stay the same, don't read too into the tooltips as they are notoriously inaccurate, especially in this stage of WOTLK.
Formally Xyrm/Zurm, the Ret Pally. Now playing my rogue, Zyrm, more casually with RL friends.
As a pally that is still a hybrid (holy and ret) I am thinking of getting one glyph for RET and one for holy. If you had to pick one Glyph for ret what would you chose?
On a side note as a ret pally palying with SoB(SoM) I was a bit taken back by the recoil damage when beating on the test dummies. Maybe its something trival in raids but it seemed like the dps upgrade was larger with Blood, but as a healer I am not sure I want to burden of healing a ret doing self damage for a small dps increase. From what I see it only gets worse with the better gear we get so at some point we are taking pretty sizeable chunks. Rawr says the dps is more than marginal so I will try it, but I am worried.
As a pally that is still a hybrid (holy and ret) I am thinking of getting one glyph for RET and one for holy. If you had to pick one Glyph for ret what would you chose?
On a side note as a ret pally palying with SoB(SoM) I was a bit taken back by the recoil damage when beating on the test dummies. Maybe its something trival in raids but it seemed like the dps upgrade was larger with Blood, but as a healer I am not sure I want to burden of healing a ret doing self damage for a small dps increase. From what I see it only gets worse with the better gear we get so at some point we are taking pretty sizeable chunks. Rawr says the dps is more than marginal so I will try it, but I am worried.
Glyph of Judgement is the best one for Ret.
Glyph of Holy Light is likely best for PvE Holy.
SoB recoil is marginal, especially with Divine Storm.
I am interested in seeing someone other than Redcape do a SoB vs SoC with glyph and libram dps test on Live.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
Something's been bothering me:
Glyph of Consecration (Req. lvl. 20) - Increases the duration and cooldown of Consecration by 2 sec.
If it does the same damage, only over a longer period, how does that increase the dps? Unless the tooltop is wrong, in a way it doesn't state damage per tick stays as it was. Any input on the matter?
Where does it say the damage will stay the same? It should keep the damage per tick the same, but result in more damage per cast.
Unless those are your test results, there shouldn't be anything to worry about.
On a side note as a ret pally palying with SoB(SoM) I was a bit taken back by the recoil damage when beating on the test dummies. Maybe its something trival in raids but it seemed like the dps upgrade was larger with Blood, but as a healer I am not sure I want to burden of healing a ret doing self damage for a small dps increase. From what I see it only gets worse with the better gear we get so at some point we are taking pretty sizeable chunks. Rawr says the dps is more than marginal so I will try it, but I am worried.
As someone just posted, your divine storm will heal you, but also, any damage not covered by DS that ends up getting healed will turn into mana for you through spiritual attunement.
As of right now Command is VASTLY superior to blood. For some reason Command is getting a big spell power bonus, to the point that Blood is doing 35% of Command damage. Also, the judgement on Blood is in fact lower than Command.
Of course the Command tooltip does not reflect this change.
Also SoR is bugged, it isn't getting full damage, like also a problem with spellpower not applying from Sheath.
In short, this build is bugged, and badly. Don't bother drawing long term conclusions from it. In the short term, use Command, it rules atm.
You know, if you really think about it, it would be great if it remained that way (SoC >> SoB > SoR). Things would make sense for once (Talented Seal >> Level 66 Seal > Level 1 Seal).
Originally Posted by Bruencairn
-Avitus could the difference in weapon DPS you're seeing be accounted by racials? If the weapons are close I think Torch would win out for dwarfs (yay expertise!).
It's really hard to tell what's working and intended and what's bugged right now, let alone come up with anything conclusive regarding comparisons. It's a bit of a miss we'll have to sit tight for a few days, while things are reassessed.
Since these threads seem to be proliferating, I figure'd I'd just start a new one. Here is a quick Q&A.
Q: Is Ret OP?
A: Perhaps. We think Ret's dps isn't abnormally high in PvE, and may not even be high in PvP over the course of a long fight. Where we are worried is how much damage Ret can do up front. It's also Holy damage, which isn't a big deal when you're considering a fully sundered mob, but can turn into a lot of damage in PvP.
Q: Are we going to nerf Ret?
A: TO THE GROUND BABY. Okay, not really, but sometimes I can't resist. We'll see how much that quote comes back to haunt me. We will probably be making some changes soon, perhaps even hotfixes. We want to be very surgical about what we do. We don't want to overdo it, and we don't want to hurt their sustained PvE damage. When we've decided, I'll make sure you all know.
Q: Why did it take us this long to admit there was a problem when EVERYONE knew about it?
A: A couple of weeks ago there were some bugs with weapon equipping that caused some problems that of course were being exploited. We didn't want to nerf Ret TO THE GROUND BABY only to discover that the weapon problem was causing 90% of it.
Zurm, could you double check the Buffs tab? I am still not seeing a Melee Crit % Increase Buffs i.e. Leader of the Pack and Rampage.
EDIT:
1) Rawr should give a popup saying there is a new version (2.0.1). If you still haven't updated from 2.0.0, some errors might be fixed.
2) The LOTP thing is my fault after talking to astralyian. It shoudl be fixed for the next release.
Formally Xyrm/Zurm, the Ret Pally. Now playing my rogue, Zyrm, more casually with RL friends.
Talking to the hunters after the raid last night, they told me that JoW is having the same issues as JoL where the internal cool down isn't working properly. The hunters were trying to dump mana and couldn't get into the 80% range.
I think for KJ last night, JoL did more healing than any other healer in the raid. I lol'd.
What professions would you recommend to get for most damage? Got engineering/enchanting now, but engineering at least gotta go cause I'm so tired of goggles. Considering BS for 2 extra sockets and maybe LW for the 116AP bracer thing. Which you think are gonna be best for dps or too early to say since might show up some new stuff for Wotlk? Dont know how good the use/proc things some other professions got or if an extra glyph will make a big difference?
This is from my random assortment of notes, unless something has changed in the last 2 weeks, this is what you "gain" (default enchantments you'd lose are subtracted):
BS: 101.2 AP (2x20 str sockets)
JC: 78.5 AP
LW: 76 AP
Enchanting: 64 AP
Alchemy: 64 AP
Inscription: 64 AP
Meaning you're set if you get BS + any one of those 5.
Additionally I haven't calculated the worth of the tailoring-only cape enchant and obviously this doesn't take into account benefits from potentially good crafted gear.
The cape enchant was armor penetration last time I looked so it is pretty weak for Ret, and it doesn't allow Enchanting to also buff the cape.
Nothing major has changed in the profession front in the last two weeks.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
I'm sorry if I missed this somewhere in the thread - what is a good hit cap number to reach for - for
1) PvE
2) PvP
Thank you so much
PVE - There is a hard cap at 9% for bosses. With 3.0 it isnt as vital to be at that cap for PVE, as Strength scales our DPS faster point-for-point but it is still good to have some hit. Rawr is a good tool for finding a good balance.
PVP - I think the cap is about 5% It should be easy enough to cap with pvp gear.
I was wondering why everyone has the ret pally judgeing light over wisdom? Are we that mana efficent where we do not need Wisdom? Or is there a scaling issue where JoL is based off the person that seals the mob?
Does anyone have an idea on how to code a macro to "turn on a light" when art of war is up? I think for PVP/PVE it would be awsome to know when that instant FoL is up without having to look at 35 buffs up at once.
RV is almost certainly the best choice. Everyone has been complaining since it was implemented about what a minimal DPS it is for 5 full points. It only affects 2 abilities which are each on 8 and 10s CDs and it only affects their critical damage bonus. It's a miniscule effect to drop one point.
Agreed.
This is a Build I based off the comments on this thread which I have followed since Beta day 1, it's the build I am using ATM on live: >>>LINK<<<
As of right now Command is VASTLY superior to blood. For some reason Command is getting a big spell power bonus, to the point that Blood is doing 35% of Command damage. Also, the judgement on Blood is in fact lower than Command.
Of course the Command tooltip does not reflect this change.
Also SoR is bugged, it isn't getting full damage, like also a problem with spellpower not applying from Sheath.
In short, this build is bugged, and badly. Don't bother drawing long term conclusions from it. In the short term, use Command, it rules atm.
You posted this yesterday but nothing has changed from today. I ran the numbers for both Command and Blood. Command is superior if you have a lot of haste to stack it with (since Command seems to be scaling with haste now). Otherwise Blood is better. As far as judgements go, Blood still dominates Command by a pretty good amount so I don't see where you're getting this "Blood is in fact lower than Command" when referring to the judgement portion of the rotation.
EDIT: Judgement of Blood seems to out-perform Judgement of Command by 4% but Seal of Command and Seal of Blood are only a marginal 1% depending on the amount of haste you have to scale it with.
Yes but if you had to take BoM what would you change? 2 more points out of RV?
Yeah, BoM is left out as there are other buffs that are similar (if not exactly the same) and are now raid-wide.
If you really want BoM for solo/grinding though, in my opinion, it'd between RV and PoJ depending on whether you're going to be moving on foot frequently or not
You posted this yesterday but nothing has changed from today. I ran the numbers for both Command and Blood. Command is superior if you have a lot of haste to stack it with (since Command seems to be scaling with haste now). Otherwise Blood is better. As far as judgements go, Blood still dominates Command by a pretty good amount so I don't see where you're getting this "Blood is in fact lower than Command" when referring to the judgement portion of the rotation.
EDIT: Judgement of Blood seems to out-perform Judgement of Command by 4% but Seal of Command and Seal of Blood are only a marginal 1% depending on the amount of haste you have to scale it with.
That makes no sense. Blood and command scale with haste at the same rate, unless there's an internal cd on command, in which case blood scales better with haste.
10/15/08, 11:21 AM
