Does rawr account for spell GCD reduction from haste? Would this be a significant factor? More than half of our attacks are spells, and with more useful abilities rotations are getting much tighter. I'd think haste would be even more valuable on undead mobs, but I'm not a theorycrafting pro so I could be way off.
I don't think so. Has anyone tried to test which attacks get a GCD reduction with haste and which do not (Not assumptions, but tests)?
Enchant Bracers - Greater Assault now enchant bracers to increase attack power by 50. (Up from 38)
With this change it pushes LW in line with other professions (as the LW only bracer enchant loses 12 AP advantage):
BS: 101.2 AP (2x20 str sockets)
JC: 78.5 AP
LW: 64 AP
Enchanting: 64 AP
Alchemy: 64 AP
Inscription: 64 AP
Keep in mind JC is only this good since it allows you to use 1 less blue gem (at a trade off of 15 stam).
I don't think so. Has anyone tried to test which attacks get a GCD reduction with haste and which do not (Not assumptions, but tests)?
Judgement, Divine Storm, Hammer of Wrath and Crusader Strike do not benefit from GCD reduction. Consecrate and Seals do benefit though.
Tested it with:
/run hooksecurefunc("CooldownFrame_SetTimer", function(_, start, duration, enable) if start > 0 and enable > 0 then DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage(duration) end end)
So from what Iv gathered from numerous different posts, Im getting that Haste and Expertise are no longer that great?? Haste used to be #1 with SoB, but from what Im seeing it no longer is as beneficial. Im kind of confused though because alot of the new gear it Wotlk has haste on it.
I was also wondering if the majority of us with Sunwell gear and those that have stacked haste basically dont have the best ret gear anymore. From what Iv seen on Rawr and Maxdps.com, there is alot of gear that I have passed on numerous times at the top of the charts now.
I read how basically Strength>Hit>Crit, and also how this is still up for debate until further notice. I am curious what other stats are good though. In TBC, the impression I was under was that Rets either stacked haste or Armor Pen, and I was just wondering what other stats aside from Strength are ones to shoot for in the xpac seeing that haste and Armor Pen are no longer considered all that great.
I've tried searching, but has anyone run numbers on how savagery now fairs compared to mongoose, due to all the ap / sp scaling in our abilities now, and the general value of crit seeming to decrease?
To Babathong: Strength is THE stat to gear for. Basically you only grab hit crit expertiese when the rest of the armor piece gives more strength. On your gear just regem for more str and you should be set.
To Arelae, there is a post further back (perhaps in paladin general) that discussed it, basically savagery is marginally better than mongoose, but its so marginal you shouldnt really re-enchant for it.
I sifted through the many posts in this thread, but I couldn't find the answer I was seeking.
It certainly isn't mana efficient, and probably is a pain in the rear otherwise, but could you throw a cycle of Seal of Corruption in with your DPS? Keeping the DoT up would give you quite a bit of extra damage toward the end of a boss fight. But would it be worth missing out on those few SoB or SoC crits while stacking SoCor?
I was under the impression that without Precision, we would now need 142 hit rating to be hit capped against bosses. Is this supposed to be true?
The reason I ask is that tonight we were trying to learn the nerfed form of Kil'Jaeden, and I was chosen to be the maintank instead of a Warlock (which is an interesting topic in itself - 5k+ TPS is pretty sweet), and I needed to switch in some higher stamina pieces so I was running with only 108 hit rating. We wiped on him for several hours, probably around 20 attempts total, and according to Recount none of my abilities missed for the entire night. This is also consistent with some previous short testing I had done a few days ago on the level 70 target dummies with zero hit rating where I was only missing 1-2% of the time.
It sure appears to me that Precision was "baked in" for us, unless there's some raidbuff for melee +hit that I'm not aware of (we had no moonkin tonight, plus I thought that the melee hit part was taken off Imp FF). Does anyone with more time on their hands want to run some conclusive tests with a larger sample size to look into it?
This is also consistent with some previous short testing I had done a few days ago on the level 70 target dummies with zero hit rating where I was only missing 1-2% of the time.
It sure appears to me that Precision was "baked in" for us, unless there's some raidbuff for melee +hit that I'm not aware of (we had no moonkin tonight, plus I thought that the melee hit part was taken off Imp FF). Does anyone with more time on their hands want to run some conclusive tests with a larger sample size to look into it?
This is huge. I can confirm this (barring the dummies behaving in a bizarre manner). I did 2 small tests (a 5 min and a 10 min). The 5 minute test was done with 1.9% hit and I missed only once on the dummy. The 10 min test and missed somewhere around 2.1%.
If anyone wants to do more tests to confirm, it'd be great.
I have question right there... we went to MH yesterday just to test how much it got nerfed after patch and T6 hands dropped. Counting the STR difference to S4 ones, I rolled and got them, gemmed for 10STR ignoring the 2 hit bonus. However, Rawr still insists that S4 is superior to T6 by about 5-6 dps points under complete raid buffs / debuffs.
From what I've heard around here, I was kinda surprised by this. Using FCFS without any stress on preffering anything else but Judgement (maybe I am wrong in that), shouldn't T6 > S4 for that case? Thanks for reply.♦
If anyone wants to do more tests to confirm, it'd be great.
I can confirm that I am seeing similar results. I AFKed while auto-attacking a level 70 dummy, using a two-hand axe. I took off all gear that gave hit, however I did still have the [Shard of Contempt] equipped. I was using Retribution Aura, no consumables and no other players were anywhere around me or attacking the same target.
When I returned, exactly 964 swings later, these were my results:
65.9% Hit
22.9% Crit
6.6% Glancing (349/350 skill)
3.0 Dodge (44 expertise rating)
1.6% Miss
I don't think there is anyway to deny that the data points to the lost 3% hit coming from somewhere. Is it "baked" or is it "bundled" with a talent that hasn't an updated tooltip? Was everyone using Retribution Aura? I guess the next test would be to unlearn all talents and use no aura. If the results are similar, then we need confirmation from GC or another reliable source that this change is here to stay.
From my point of view, this happens because the hit mechanic has changed so greatly. There was a blue post from Blizzard where they explained that players should more focus on their key stats an were not be forced to gem for the hitcap.
Hitrating was strong because 1% under the hitcap means in fact 1% dps loss. From my understanding this has changed, because more of your styles will be partially resisted instead of completely fail to land. I noticed this in Naxxramas (wotlk beta) when I changed my gear from 220 to 240 hit rating (still under the cap). There were still some resists from SoM/JoM/consecration but they were much smaller.
Anyone else that have noticed a significant increase in % Crit since the patch?
We had our first Raid in Sunwell since patch last night, yeah was a joke, and my % Crit was very high.
Was I just lucky, or have anyone else noticed it?
So I'm very new to Ret, and am retiring my hunter in the expansion so I can be a dual threat (healing/DPS).
So I've tried to catch up with everything in this thread and have a decent understand of which stats are important, and how to spec.
But one place I've been unsure of and seen mentioned here a lot is rotations. Right now I feel like I'm just spamming abilities when they refresh. Trying to keep Divine Storm, Crusader's Strike, Consecration and Judging all perfect seem near impossible. And it gets harder when the mob is undead or demonic.
So I guess my question is, IS there a set rotation I should be doing and what do I change for undead/demonic mobs if anything? And if there isn't a set rotation, what is given priority?
Anyway I didn't see a "Paladin Help Me" thread like the hunters have, so I'm asking here. Thanks ahead of time.
Anyone else that have noticed a significant increase in % Crit since the patch?
We had our first Raid in Sunwell since patch last night, yeah was a joke, and my % Crit was very high.
Was I just lucky, or have anyone else noticed it?
Don't mind the rest, I forgot Demonslaying and forgot to Reseal and some other crappy mistakes.
It is just RNG. If you have say 40% crit and see 51% crit on a fight with a low number of hits, that's still not really significant. You can do some very simple statistics to see if given an expected crit rate X, after Y hits you can reasonably observe Z crit rate.
Anyone have models for how Armor Penetration is going to be stacking up now that we're back into the realm of >70% of damage being physical?
Would be nice to hear how did you come up with that number? I'm sure my rotation is not perfect but I'm seeing numbers closer to 50% (auto + DS + CS) than 70% fully buffed.
I've tried searching, but has anyone run numbers on how savagery now fairs compared to mongoose, due to all the ap / sp scaling in our abilities now, and the general value of crit seeming to decrease?
Mongoose still performs better according too rawr. However savagery has indeed gone up alot more or less doubled.
Originally Posted by tarja
I was under the impression that without Precision, we would now need 142 hit rating to be hit capped against bosses. Is this supposed to be true?
The reason I ask is that tonight we were trying to learn the nerfed form of Kil'Jaeden, and I was chosen to be the maintank instead of a Warlock (which is an interesting topic in itself - 5k+ TPS is pretty sweet), and I needed to switch in some higher stamina pieces so I was running with only 108 hit rating. We wiped on him for several hours, probably around 20 attempts total, and according to Recount none of my abilities missed for the entire night. This is also consistent with some previous short testing I had done a few days ago on the level 70 target dummies with zero hit rating where I was only missing 1-2% of the time.
It sure appears to me that Precision was "baked in" for us, unless there's some raidbuff for melee +hit that I'm not aware of (we had no moonkin tonight, plus I thought that the melee hit part was taken off Imp FF). Does anyone with more time on their hands want to run some conclusive tests with a larger sample size to look into it?
Draenei aura 1%, RNG? are possible. However I did notice a simmilar effect on the PTR when in karazhan I had 0 misses with 120 hit rating (and hyjal and solo onyxia). I might go knock about tirion fordring a bit too get some numbers or thekkal just to check this isn't random if it isn't random it could mean a change in mechanics but i believe its random..(Though 900 melee hits against onyxia with 120~ hit rating would make you think there should be atleat 1 miss..)
On the SoV question it simply isn't worth keeping up the stack you lose as much as you gain by having to sacrifice GCDs here and there..
Also Aarn nice RNG luck here is my pre patch brutallus kill where you can see fairly good luck with 52% crit chance (40 with totems 45 with mongoose proc +3% JoC) Wow Web Stats. Previously i've had attempts that annoy me getting 34% crit on an ability. Also the shorter the fight the more vicious RNG can be. Can't wait too do brut next week sadly I got a bad case of the lags this week.
As I was fighting yesterday, I noticed a Judgement miss in my SCT, so went back and took a look at the combat log to see what is going on. Very interesting log messages. Have a screenshot at home, but I can paraphrase the combat log:
Jabril casts Judgement of Light at Mob
Jabril's Judgement of Light misses Mob
Mob is affected by Judgement of Light
Jabril's Judgment of Command deals X holy damage to Mob
Mob is affected by Heart of the Crusader
Jabril gains X mana from Judgement of the Wise
Jabril gains replenishment
So it looks like Judgement of Light "missed" even though all the effects took place. I still did damage, Light still was on the mob, I still got mana back, replenishment was still up. I'll post the SS later this evening, but that may explain why some are seeing misses, and some not.
I went back and checked recount, and I had around 10 misses with Judgement of Light for several hours of leveling.
Just confirming what Gromguk said. I noticed a miss yesterday and screenshotted it, but I realized that I had both done damage with the Judgement and applied the debuff. I'm guessing it's just a simple combat log bug, or else there's a hidden effect somewhere in the Judgement system that's being reported.
Interesting - I missed last night judging a druid with Justice and the effect most certainly didn't stick. We were solo, and he had just trinketed by stun, and we were alone. Obviously anecdotal, I'm going to play with it tonight - but I thought that was weird because it still did damage.
if there isn't a set rotation, what is given priority?
Anyway I didn't see a "Paladin Help Me" thread like the hunters have, so I'm asking here. Thanks ahead of time.
The rotation is FCFS, and the priority on a boss is Seal, Judgement, CS, Cons, Divine Storm, and at 35% HoW goes after the Seal. For undead/demon, use Holy Wrath then Exorcism when you are not doing the normal 4 attacks.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
Ok so its not a wide range of results but i get a solid 5-6% miss on taelan fordring (the guy whos 63) 469 attacks.
So i did the honourable thing and equipped 97 hit rating (6.15% hit) after 568 hits I recieved 0 misses. Apart from interesting Judgement of light -misses-that-hit-and-applied-debuff-
I can post screenshots of my recount if necessary else you can test on a boss or something..
It seems we need even less hit then before it is possible they baked in some hit and prehaps this isn't only affecting us..
10/18/08, 11:49 AM
