Patchnotes 1.9: "Judgements that place debuffs can no longer be resisted."

I think the thought originally was to not make the predominantly holy paladin population work against 17% base spell miss on bosses.

This was absolutely true pre-3.0. You could judge Justice on a rogue with CloS up; debuff Judgements would apply on any non-immune target. However, with the change of the Judgement system in 3.0, I don't think this is necessarily the case anymore. All Judgements place debuffs and deal damage, so that rule would make Judgements a 100% hit attack, which seems odd at best.

I'm just guessing but maybe it's two separate effects going - one is damage the other is the debuff.

EDIT: Purely for implementation, if it's two separate effects it's just simpler to do - you have 3 seal damage types (command, blood, light/wisdom/justice - equal damage) and 3 debuff types (light, wisdom, justice). If it's a single effect then they need to code every permutation separately.

So you're doing Cons over DS? I figured DS over Cons because DS can proc SoB which would yield more damage.

Why Holy Wrath over Exorcism? I'm showing Exorcism to beat Holy Wrath fairly quickly as it's more than double the coefficients(0.15 AP or Spellpower for Exo, 0.07 AP or Spelllpower for HW). At L70 you need some combo of AP and Spellpower combined around 1500 for Exorcism matches HW. At L80 you only need around 700 (base damage difference is smaller). Any more and Exorcism pulls ahead.

More than one mob, HW of course wins.

I really do not understand why you have CS and Con as a priority over DS. Unless Rawr is completely mistaken in its estimates, I show DS at 17% of my total damage, CS as 10%, and Con as 7%. Those numbers are fairly consistent with what I have seen the past few days on live as well. What is the basis for your particular priority queue?

CS is 110% of weapon damage and DS is 100%. You would see higher numbers for DS if you had more than 1 target at a time (which is common on non-Bosses, which is why I said Boss dps).

On a single target, Cons was hitting harder than DS for me on Bosses in the Hyjal run I did yesterday.

To add to this, you have to be very careful where you stand when testing on target dummies. It's easy to catch multiple dummies in your Divine Storm.

EDIT: Sorry, useless post. Please delete.

Umm, DS is 8 yards, as reflected in the tooltip. Divine Storm

Confirmed. I did 1000 swings with an untalented 70 paladin (no hit/expertise) against the 70 dummy and got a 1.6% miss chance.

Also, I got a 6.2% rate of glancing blows, which did about 6% less damage than normal attacks.

Edit: Human female paladin, using an axe (Gorehowl). I *think* I was specced Precision before the patch, but I am not sure.

Azuregos has been 2-mannable since 2.3, although very low DPS make it an hour long slog.

While I haven't tried it myself since the patch, I assume he could just as easily be killed, although being an outdoor boss makes him that much harder to farm reliably per week.

According to Wowhead, Ossirian has half the health, but also half the gold as Onyxia, although I don't know enough about his mechanics to conclude either way. I'll try to duo it later and see what happens.

Finally, I doubt Hakkar could be duo'd easily. His constant MCs can quickly run someone OOM and it took our 4-man team over 20 minutes to kill him, and that was with all of his Priests dead.

I've been doing that since june, it just doesn't take quite as long now ;p You might want to give Azuregos a shot (i thought about soloing him..), but the 20 mans generally don't give much gold off the bosses for the effort... I went with a group of 5 to kill hakkar for the achievement and we only got about 20g a pop.

On the hot topic right now, has anyone tried attacking the raid (73) dummy with 0 hit yet? I might not need to wear a certain ring for it's hit if it is true that precision may have been ninja baked-in. Tomorrow, I will run with my old setup (99 hit) and report back with brutallus numbers, that should give us some decent data.

On a slightly less hot topic, here is a WWS breakdown of a kj kill post 3.0, and post hotfix nerfs:
Wow Web Stats

Other rets I talk to are reporting similar numbers (from 2800-3k dps) and also similar healing from JoL. If this trend continues in wrath we look to be very powerful in pve, if not near-essential... here's hoping 3.0.3 is gentle to us.

On my old server 2 ret paladins did aq20 pretty sure you can duo most of old content.

What about soloing Hakkar then? Anything that makes it impossible? He has 360k health according to Wowhead, if you can put out 2k dps on him it would take 3 minutes, or 6 minutes with only 1k dps (Seal of Light for extra security, etc). Just trying to get the achievement, mainly.

Looking at Prophet Skeram also, he only has 160k health, and does not have any especially lethal abilities against a single person in melee, except his mind control (again, not sure how it works with only one person).

Keep in mind that DS will/can trigger your seals, consecration can not.

Because the Rawr model is from when DS did holy damage, not physical. I can't release a new version every day! The next release featuring the DS change, racial fixes, and new mechanics will be released after I get some numbers from 3.0.3. I'm not too worried about lots of releases now, with the joke they made instances now (especially LOL-well) I don't see much of a need for theorycrafting until level 80. And I would highly suggest AGAINST using Rawr to theorycraft at 80 right now... all the rating conversions are based around level 70.

Also for those who are confused, ALL seal procs, including those from abilities, go toward the SEAL damage total in rawr, and it not spread among the various abilities. You should notice, however, that getting DS will cause your total seal damage to go up.

The latest patch notes from the PTR. Anyone else scared? No news is generally bad news, where Blizzard and Ret Pallies are concerned.

No news? More or less, we know what they have in store for Ret:

* Divine Storm has already been changed to physical damage, from Holy
* Repentance's PvP duration is going to be reduced, as you posted
* Glyph of Crusader Strike is going to be changed to reduce mana cost instead of dealing more damage against stunned targets.
* Art of War is going to increase the damage of Judgements, Divine Storm and Crusader Strike by 4/8%, instead of increasing crit damage
* Righteous Vengeance is going to cause a Holy damage DOT that deals damage equal to 40% of a crit's damage over 8 seconds

About the only concerns I have now is:

1. What abilities will proc the RV DOT?
2. Will the RV DOT be dispellable?
3. Will the RV DOT roll like Deep Wounds?

So we did Brutallus this week, and I only managed about 2200 DPS using a Judgment prioritized FCFS rotation by hand. I asked about this earlier in the thread and was told to use a macro such as this:

/castsequence reset=combat Judgement of Light,Crusader Strike,Divine Storm,Consecration,Crusader Strike,Judgement of Light,Divine Storm,Crusader Strike,Judgement of Light,Consecration,Crusader Strike,Divine Storm,Judgement of Light,Crusader Strike

Popping Elixir of Demonslaying at the start of the fight, in conjunction w/ AW/Haste Pot/Trinket my DPS should go up. That I understand, but how effective is that macro?

Using it should I be able to pull around 2.6K DPS on Brutallus? Which is where my Raid Leader assumes I should be in my current gearset.

Also, can anyone tell me why my Elixir of Demonslaying is being overwritten by other buffs at the beginning of the fight? It seems to be replaced by Battle Shout.

Not to cut your friend out of the loop, but you should be able to comfortably solo Onyxia. You could then do that and duo her with an appropriate alt for even more cash. It would be interesting to see what other old world bosses ret paladins are able to solo relatively easily, its a nice source of cash. I was thinking Magmadar might be possible, depending on how much actual damage he does. Baron and Shaz might be doable as well. Some FR & AR gear should trivialize their damage. I'm not sure about Prophet Skeram, the packs to him could suck, and he splits into 3 copies, though they have much less health.

This kind of brings up a question that came to me while soloing things: What are people doing with their instant flashes in raids? Provided its not an undead boss, there are periodic gaps in the rotation that can let you use FoL. Do you toss it on the MT blindly? (Target= macro), Toss it on someone in the raid (Click to cast raid frames) or Just ignore it unless you need it for yourself?

Given that AOW'd FOLs are still resetting the swing timer, I'd say you shouldn't be using them at all unless someone's going to die.