• Arikah

More datas to add the the strange hit issue pile, a brut kill (other kills as well but some misses due to parries). 95 hit rating, no moonkins or +hit buffs, 0% miss rate (expertise capped): Wow Web Stats

 

Darcnes

After reading about the extra hit people have been noticing I did my own test as well.

Using my Belf pally - male, with Blade of Harbringers with mongoose enchant and no other gear and with Retribution aura. Had 16.94% (21.78% when mongoose procs) crit, 0 hit and 0 expertise. So I would be expecting approx 5% miss.

After 1000 swings i got:
64.5% hit.
17.3% crit.
5.4% glancing.
5.5% dodge.
5.2% parry.
2.1% miss.

This is weird and I hope a blue will mention something about this sometime even if it is just an error.

 

Hidden

I'm certainly having no additional 3% hit on any of my chars, having tested it with a 80 Premade BE Paladin, a 70 BE Paladin and a 32 Human Paladin.

 

Andrj

Just did some short testing (had to leave, will test more later) with my Belf paladin against a lvl 70 dummy in org, using retribution aura. I had removed gear until I was as close enough to 2% hit as possible, which was 2.28%. These 70 mobs require 5% hit to not miss against, correct?

I used recount and it didn't count a single miss after about 5 minutes of normal dps rotation. Misses are supposed to show up on the "Cake statistics screen" for my "Hostile attacks" right? If not, please tell me where they are counted and displayed so I can confirm it.

Also watched SCT and I didn't notice any miss message there either. I did get 15 glancing blows however, but I assume that's just normal.

 

Aarn

I had quite a few missed in Sunwell while running 133 +Hit, I'd say it's just RNG.
If 3% would have been "baked into" talents or forgotten or what ever, it would have been 0% as it was with precision and 95 +Hit in the past.

 

Redcape

I am becoming more in favor of the 'precision didn't unspec' theory. Basically this amounts to the idea that people who had specced precision prepatch never lost it when the patch came and removed their talent points because precision is no longer there. In theory this would mean that somehow the game still considers me (and others who were specced into it) to have precision because the normal process of removing buffs when talents are removed could not occur.

I have 6.x% hit in my current gear and have been doing a TON of fighting bosses for achievements (that I should already have credit for, argh!) and have seen zero misses in thousands of swings. Anecdotal only, but when I finally did see a miss against the first boss of AQ20 it stood out like a beacon to me until I realized I had his 75% miss debuff. As far as I can tell I absolutely have 3% hit baked in, thousands of swings and no misses later.

So, here is the information we need: For all those out there submitting reports of miss rates, did you have precision prepatch?

 

Darcnes

I had precision before the patch and am now seeing an extra 3% hit, respeced multiple times afterwards but so would imagine that would be taken into account. Also might be good to see what type of weapons are used for the testing as well, incase it doesn't apply to unarmed or just two handers ect. I used a 2 handed axe.

 

Suicidal Zebra

I was thinking exactly the same thing last night Redcape, which is why I've set up a character copy for a premade Paladin. Unfortunately I'm not able to test on live, but I do know that when I transferred my Paladin from Live to the Beta Realms she was spec'd for Precision. I wonder if this error could have effected Blizzards DPS testing at lvl80, and whether other character classes have the same issues.

EDIT:

To reiterate, my previous tests were performed without any points invested in talents, so in all likelihood current talent specs aren't generating the reduced miss rate.

 

Exemplar

For people testing on things in Beta, only Suicidal Zebra noted weapon skill (which was below max). Make sure you're factoring this in. Testing on 83 dummy with sub-maxed weapon skill (especially likely on unarmed) will produce skewed numbers.

 

• frmorrison

In my case, my test goes against that theory (I got ghost hit on the 80 premade as Ret, but not as Holy).

Edit: I did have precision pre-patch, my mistake. I have have respeced once since 3.0.

My current guess (since SoC/SoB is incorrect) is Sanctified whatever it is called that gives 3% haste to the raid is giving the 3% ghost hit. I can test it tonight on my premade to see if I get the same amount of misses without the talent.


I assume most people use the premades, which have maxed weapon skill in everything.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Andrj

Yes, I had precision pre-patch. As for the "precision didn't unspec" theory, the same thing happened to my druid when TBC was launched and we were given a free respec. I still had some buff, constantly in cat form, most likely leader of the pack. I think it was removed when I respecced later however, and everthing went normal.

I have respecced multiple times post-patch before I posted my results.

Also, I let my paladin swing white hits while I was afk. Ended up with a little over 1000 swings.

 

rldolph79

I don't mean to detract from the hit discussion going on, because I'm curious about it as well seeing as how I missed exactly 0 times on Brutallus last night with only 87 hit, but I've just got a quick question about Haste vs. Insane Strength potions.

According to Redcape's spreadsheet, assuming I entered everything correctly, strength is worth about 3.5x as much per point as haste, so am I correct in assuming that Insane Strength is now the preferred level 70 potion or did I screw up somewhere when I was entering my stats into the spreadsheet? Are you all seeing similar results?

 

• Zurm

Yes, most of a ret pally's damage post 3.0 is from on-use abilities, not white attacks anymore. As such, str/crit are worth way more than any other stat.

 

• frmorrison

87 hit = 5.5% and then you have a ghost 3% hit so 8.5% hit giving 0 misses makes sense.


The stat ranking is something like this per point (Maxdps gives a point value and Rawr gives a graph for better numbers):

Strength > Crit > Agility >>>> Expertise > Haste > Armor Pen

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Khaelarys

I did have precision before the patch - but I've unspecced and respecced since. So if it were a phantom precision that didn't go away on the soft talent reset, then it definitely goes away when you do a hard respec.

 

Anauel

I don't think this is the answer since I did my tests without talents and auras.

 

• frmorrison

Well, the answer must be that Precision is giving hit if you had it pre-3.0 and you are SOL if you did not. I think Beta is different.

So I will still try the without the 3% haste talent no Seal or Ret aura on Beta server, since I got 6.5% miss with a Draeni (so had 1.5% ghost hit and 1% racial) with 0 hit over 1200 swings with all Ret talents, Ret aura up, and SoC up.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Lau

Quite strange, I actually use MaxDps and I hardly get the same result with my medium T6-level gear. I get :
Strength >> hit/expertise >> Crit > Agi > ArP > Haste
Using the raid buffs or not doesn't change these ratio very much (it just makes strength even better).

Any idea why our outputs differ so much, in particular concerning the crit/agi and expertise differences?


My stats, in case it can help, just the way I put them in maxdps : Weap 130 dps, speed 3.5 / 2150 pa / 137 hit / 25.5 crit 139 haste / 30 ArP / 650 sp.

By the way, I wasn't sure we should indicate the 650 SP resulting from Sheath of light, but since chosing 0 or 3 for this talent doesn't change anything, I assumed I had to put it manually.

 

• frmorrison

While I did recommend maxdps, it is only because it is 80-90% correct and is fast to load. It overestimated the gains from hit/expertise/haste. You have to put in the SP manually.

My memory may be off on the stats, it spit out, so you should look at it yourself.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Fenwe

Has anyone else noticed that Rawr 2.0.2 is saying that Bloodlust Brooch is 40dps increase over Darkmoon Card Crusade? This is different than the pre 2.0 versions of Rawr, and to me, it looks like the DM Card would still be superior over the long-run with an AP bonus of 120 at full stack and a SP bonus of 80 at full stack. If you take into account the new SP scaling with AP, the SP bonus is actually higher than 80 now.

 

• Avitus

A few things from World of Warcraft PTR Patch 3.0.3 notes worth mentioning:

Besides the two fixes at the bottom, this confirms that Judgement spells "should" be able to miss?

Also they finally caught that Crusade bug, damn :P

 

Milou

Was judgement of the martyr (blood) not bugged and lower for alliance? What is this about invalid tooltip then?

 

• Arikah

I do not take the haste talent for ret aura, but i was specced into precision before 3.0, and have not missed a single hit yet.

 

Milou

104 hit rating, was spec'ed precision pre-3.0 and I have not missed any attacks since the patch either.

 

DdarkDdemon

86 hitrating, precision prepatch, full ZA clear, not a single miss