Exemplar

Stated multiple times. Again, no, not worth the GCDs.

My math shows assuming only one attack in 3 seconds, a SoV tick + SoV strike is less than a single SoB/SoC strike. More attacks and SoB/SoC pulls ahead further. Add to this the loss of 2 GCDs.

SoV is not a DPS seal, weaving is not worth it.

 

• frmorrison

There are times when Ret is GCD locked for a bit, especially with Undead around. Those times I miss the DK's Unholy aura (0.5 seconds off GCD).

Therefore Seal Twisting will never again be a dps gain, I doubt the 10 expertise on SoV (in Wrath) will change it.


I posted once that Cons > DS, because it did more damage per-GCD, however I wasn't thinking about DS ability to proc Seals. DS > Cons always.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Gevlin

I can again confirm that there is something wrong with our hit capping. I have 85 hit rating. 0 misses in Sunwell on any ability.

 

kostyash

i have a question regarding art of war talent as it is now on live .

tooltip says:

The Art of War, 2 points. Increases the critical strike damage of Judgement, Crusader Strike, and Divine Storm by 10/20%, and critical hits with these abilities reduce the casting time of your next Flash of Light spell by 0.75 seconds / makes your next Flash of Light an instant cast spell.

so unlike Righteous Vengeance {5 points. Increases critical damage bonus of your Judgement and Divine Storm spells by 5/10/15/20/25%. ) talent it increases critical strike damage directly and not critical strike damage bonus that are different things.

20% of 200% damage is 240%

20 % bonus is 220% damage.

so also its not right to sum those numbers and say we get overall 245% critical damage

while in fact its 265%(40+25).

its also important to me because depending how those numbers act now i can decide if new art of war is buff or nerf.

 

Redcape

You would think so. It turns out though that the tooltip is just written badly, it is in fact a critical strike damage bonus modifier, not just critical strike modifier.

245% is confirmed correct from extensive testing. Also, since the abilities now are going to do 108% damage on a normal strike and 216% on a critical strike (considering only AoW for the moment) overall damage actually increases and the critical damage hardly even goes down. When you factor in current RV, the critical damage actually stays the same but retains a substantial noncritical damage bonus.

Given that RV is going to get massively buffed though it seems that in fact the AoW change is not a pve nerf at all, but rather a substantial buff. In pvp your burst will go down slightly, but you sustained damage will be higher still, so it isn't so bad.

 

RangerSix

I remember someone asking not too long ago, and I'm not sure that it's already been answered, but [Darkmoon Card: Crusade]'s spelldamage proc's only going off from consecration.

 

• frmorrison

Exorcism, Holy Wrath, and Vindication works as well. Also Holy Shock and SotR to list all the other spell attacks.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

BioXoxide

I just wanted to confirm a few things. I recently rolled a paladin (level 64 before 3.0). And was Holy until I saw the talents that the Retribution was receiving and wanted to try out the tree. I did read the majority of the thread and while I believe I understood most of it. I wanted to confirm my understanding on how to execute the abilities properly.

When performing dps in a raid or dungeon scenario I should use Seal of Blood/the Martyr and using Judgment of Light to release the seal because Judgment of Lights damage scales with attack power as to oppose Judgment of Wisdom which only provides a % of mana back and a preset amount of holy damage. Is this correct?

Is there confirmation that Seal of the Martyr IS NOT currently bugged for alliance and is not providing the same damage as it is for horde?

Last bit I wish to confirm is that if for a fact Seal of the Martyr is currently bugged on live if Seal of Command (with the Judgment Glyph + Seal of Command Glyph) the optimal choice for raid and dungeon DPS for alliance?

 

GSH

No. Light and Wisdom do the same amount of damage. However, Light's healing scales with the paladin's stats, while Wisdom's mana regen does not. But it is more important that Wisdom is up than Light.

So keep Wisdom up, unless you can guarantee that another paladin (say Protection) can keep it up.

As for Blood vs Command, right now it doesn't really matter. It's probably best to wait to see which version of Blood is real before promoting one.

 

• frmorrison

As another data point with 76 hit rating and Ret aura up, I had 0 melee misses.

That is 8.8% hit and ~10% spell hit. I cast about 50 Exorcisms on the various Sunwell bosses, and got 7% miss, so that helps show the ghost hit is giving 4% spell and melee hit. I had 1% miss on Cons, but I think only the first tic can miss.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Katadin

I lowered my +hit to 79 in our last Sunwell run, and didn't have a single miss. For me that ties up with having the Draenei +1% hit racial and the baked in/hidden +3% hit bringing it up towards 142.

I also did some tests on the dummys in Ironforge. Against the lvl70 dummy, human paladin, naked (except for my weapon, Soul Cleaver, which has no +hit or +expertise), no auras, no buffs (just mongoose procs), 2500 white swings produced:



I was specced into precision before the patch, though from the reports on here it seems to vary with that side-effect even.

 

Kolori

About our rotation on a single target, Judgement, then CS and then rest of the stuff like discussed based on situation etc. If I use Judgement, then CS, it will make them both go off cooldown within 0.5secs, then I use judgement again first after one cooldowncycle, and CS right after, which makes me use CS once every 8secs. It has potential to be used once every six seconds, so wouldnt it be better to use consecration or DS before CS to avoid so many clashes with our two top single target damaging ability cooldowns?

Sorry if its a bit confusing I typed in a bit rush.

 

Original Look

If I understand correctly, it is impossible to have a constant repeating rotation as a ret paladin due to the CD durations of certain skills. My rotation sounds similar to yours if I understood correctly, and I havnt come across a better way of doing it.

On another note, I was wondering if patch 3.0.2 has changed our optimum weapon enchants. As I understand it currently, Savagery is the better enchant to go to until you reach a certain Armor Penetration rating, at which point it is best to go for Executioner. Is this still the case? What is the magic number of AP to aim for before going Executioner? There used to be a nice graph on the RETLOL guide on this subject, but it appears to of been taken down for updating.

 

Aarn

We don't have any Draenei Warrior or Paladin(or did they change so all Draenei give melee and +Hit to both melee and spells) in Guild.
About the Crit % I posted before, I had a closer look last night on Brutallus and I actually have 53.08% Crit when fully buffed in Raid with totems and Druid Aura etc... So my % Crit is up as buffs are Raid wide now.

Looking at the +Hit issue, I haven't had any weird results but I have missed what I would expect to miss not being hit capped. Then again I'm using Seal of Command(Glyph + Libram) and not Seal of the Martyr. Also have been stacking for Str/AP as main prio, putting me at 2913 AP with Blessing of Might. I know it would probably be better(in theory at least) to go with more expertise and +Hit but I like the results I have been getting.

Had a talk with Avituus and I have to agree with him that there is no real reason to but much effort in to the numbers before WotLK as we obviously right now are rather bugged and will be changed in the near future.

Just enjoy the ride with high dps while it lasts!

 

Fqubed

I wouldnt be too worried about the hit "bug" as it will get fixed. As said, simply enjoy it.

As for the cycle, Kolori, if you start with Judge-DS you simply delay the point that Judge and CS clash. They do so for 3 cycles iirc and then stop clashing for 5 I think. Regardles, there isn o avoiding a point that they clash and thus you have to delay CS.

 

• frmorrison

As on right now 70 AP is slightly better than Mongoose (like 1 dps difference according to my Rawr) then Executioner is behind those. With the change to armor pen rating and more holy attacks, I would never want any armor pen enchants.


Draeni hit is giving spell and melee hit, but it only affects that player's party.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Tylius

I know this isnt exactly the right spot for this but I can't post in the UI interface/addons section. Anyways was wondering if anyone has a link or can tell me where to find a Mod that ANNOUNCES a Art of War proc? Any information you could give would be GREATLY appreciated. Oh and yes I have tried the only ONE I found on cursegaming and it just comes up with "FLASH" at the top of the screen. Was really hoping for one that has some bells or whistles =p..

Tylius

 

Rasputin

You can take Mik's Scrolling Battle Text and modify the AoW event to make it more noticeable in any way you like, with fonts, font size, position on the screen, stickyness, etc. I imagine other scrolling texts have similar functionality.

 

Original Look

Indeed, I came to the same conclusion myself after a bit of further reading/rawring. I swapped out Savagery for Mongoose just to try it out myself, and so far I am not impressed. However, I havn't had a chance to test it in a raid setting yet. In normal daily play, it barely seems to proc so far - Certainly not enough to make up for the lack of AP.

 

• frmorrison

Don't sign your posts.


I use the mod Ghost Pulse 2 for when AW and Seals fade. What it does is put a huge icon in front of you screen for half a second.

What you do is create a new event called "Procs" then scroll down and select "Player Buff Gains", then to the first empty box and type "Art of War" then enter. GP may be able to do more than a huge icon if you need it.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Redcape

I use Power Auras. You can set it up so it puts a big graphic on your screen while AoW is active and also set up a noise that goes off at the same time. I use it to remind me to renew my seal, but it would work just as well for AoW.

 

cleeeeeeeeeetus!

Hey guys, I've tried to search this thread for an answer, but didn't see anything that answered my question. Does haste improve SoC's proc rate? If so, doesn't that make it a more desirable stat than armor pen? The reason I ask is because Divine Storm is going to be a physical attack in WotLK... so I'm a bit confused as to which stat I should try to stack.

Thanks in advance.

 

Fqubed

Stack str. Haste does not help / hurt seal of command, just stack STR.

If you are down to just Haste vs ArP go with haste, more white and more seal procs will be better than the garbage that Armor penetration rating has become.

 

cleeeeeeeeeetus!

Well, I know to stack STR... but if there are some item's that I'm contemplating equipping, with similar stats, which item would I go for? The one with ArP or Haste?

 

Hidden

As the one who had the idea of Precision still having an effect, I haven't seen any reports contradicting to that yet.
Everyone who noticed the 3% hit had specced Precision before the patch from what I've read, it just seems to disappear when you respec again.