aylen86

Here is a statement from GC concerning the RV dot and resilience:

Source: WotLK Beta (US-English) Forums -> GC, In response to "Sigh" Response 11/3

Actually this means RV is undispellable and wouldn't be lowered by resilience, am I right?

 

Hylo

If Rigteous Vengeance dot were physical, it would be the only physical debuff paladin can make and thus not very logical.

Also wowhead says it to be magic. Maybe GC remembered wrong.

 

Altirias

Since it's a dot, the damage should be reduced by resilience, my understanding of GC's explanation is that the dot will proc on a crit that has been negated by your opponent's resilience (as it works with vengence for exemple)

 

yamamoto

Apologies if this was already mentioned, but is there any word on the stealth nerf to Sanctified Wrath? (The fact it doesn't allow AW to bypass damage reducing effects anymore)

GC seems to be dodging the question, or I may have missed it in the slew of posts.

 

Selenia

As the DoT damage is based on the damage done by the crit, how can it not be lowered by resilience?

Even if it procs off of a crit that 'never happened' so to speak, it'd not have the same critsize to base it's damage on.

 

Meuble

Does it? I've been testing that a couple of time, and last time I checked, a crit negated by resilience would trigger defensive abilites (such as natural perfection) but not offensive ones, like flurry, or vengeance.
You're sure about that?

 

Altirias

Well, that's what I read from GC's post, but I may be misunderstanding his message.

If they can trigger defensive abilities on "crits that didn't happen" due to resilience, they can trigger offensive abilities. Again, I'm pretty sure it works for vengence.

But Selenia's point remains very valid : how do they evaluate the damage of the rv dot if the crit didn't happen ? Is it based on standard crit damage absorption due tu resilience, or standard dot damage reduction ? I have no idea on this

 

Meuble

I'm going to check that (again), it bugs me off. I was pretty sure it was only defensive abilities (same for AoW for instance).
But your point is very valid, if you can ask GC on the boards, that's interesting.



Edit: Ok, thanks Prisesa, I was driving myself crazy to get a crit absorbed by resilience on a poor drood with only 200 resi >_<

 

Prinsesa

The game can't actually know when a crit is "prevented" by resilience and becomes a normal hit instead.

Instead, abilities that proc on crits also have a proc chance equal to (Resilience's crit chance reduction * Actual proc chance) even on normal hits.

This is most easily reproduced in the Warrior's Blood Craze talent, which can still be procced by mobs against a tank with 490 Defense (uncrittable), or procced by mob spells (which never crit). If you have 494 resilience (12.5% crit chance reduction), your Blood Craze has a 12.5% chance to proc on normal hits.

That being said, I believe Ghostcrawler may have misspoke or misinterpreted this mechanic, because it only works on abilities/talents that defensively proc WHEN being crit (as in Blood Craze or Priest Focused Will) and not abilities that offensively proc ON crits (such as Wrecking Crew, Vengeance and Righteous Vengeance).

"We do want Sanctuary to be the tanking seal"

- Ghostcrawler

 

Thorin

assuming these are correct, this does worry me too, I searched the WOTLK forums for a post asking about this but found none. I don't have Beta, so I cannot post though.

EDIT_______
I'm hoping it's just a tooltip type-O

 

Alleyra

I know this topic was glossed over a few pages back, but with the changes going Live, I think it's time to get a definitive verdict:

Glyph of Crusader Strike vs Glyph of Consecration

The new Glyph of CS reduces the cost of the spell by 20%. Given that JoW probably isn't bugged anymore, (and Blizzard still seems to be up in the air on the amount of mana it should return) I can definitely foresee a lack of liquidity with our mana in our rotations. And while the Consecrate Glyph has it's own benefits, I think the new CS Glyph is a better buy for longevity and milking more damage out of our mana pool.

 

Kigale

I'd like to see some test data to show that vengeance procs off resilience induced normal attacks. I tested it myself a few months ago with a life draining-resilience capped warlock and couldn't get vengeance to proc on 100 normal attacks. That satisified me that it doesn't proc, but maybe someone did a more vigorous test.

 

Saltycracker

Back to the discussion of professions for a sec,

Fire Leaf
Requires Level 70
Requires Herbalism (325)
Use: Reduces your armor by 100%, but increases your attack power by 400 for 10 sec. (1 Min Cooldown)

Assuming you can chain these, you get an average of ~67AP by chaining these in raids. How does that stack up against the other professions. I am planning on BS/Eng but this looks promising.

 

• frmorrison

Are you sure their isn't a cooldown on using these while in combat (similar to potions, which have a 1 min cooldown but can only be used once in combat)?


RV is still a decent PvP talent at least for 1 point, since the DoT stops Bandaids and drinking.


I am glad GC is allowing the 30 second shared cooldown on Bubble/Wings so PvE ret isn't so affected, but is that in this patch? 3.0.3 on Beta still allowed Bubble/Wings.

 

Saltycracker

Wowhead says they are on the drum cooldown, so I dont think there is any OOC cooldown.

 

Sparticusrex

Assuming a "perfect" rotation of both versions of Consecration (8.5s unglyphed and 10.5s glyphed) and Crusader Strike (6.5s), the Consecrate glyph would actually pull out on top for mana saved.

22% of base mana @ 70 (3918) = 861.96 mana. For an unglyphed consecrate, it breaks down to a 101.41 mana per second usage. Glyphed, this is reduced to 82.10 mana per second. The difference between the two is 19.32 mana per second.

8% of base mana @ 70 = 313.44 mana. The Crusader Strike glyph reduces this by 20%, which saves 62.69 mana per cast. Again, assuming an ideal rotation of 6.5s that breaks down to a mana savings of 9.64 mana per second.

On paper, the Glyph of Consecration yields better mana savings in an ideal rotation by 9.68 mana per second. Additionally, a 10 second cooldown on consecrate is going to reduce the number of GCD clashes. Something to consider, however... Should there be a situation where you need to drop consecrate due to mana concerns (something we have yet to get hard empirical evidence of), the benefit of this glyph will diminish. Crusader Strike will never be out of the rotation, so will not be subject to this stipulation.

 

Fiola

Based on what we know of Crit/Resilience mechanics, I think GC is wrong, and the post he responded to was poorly worded.

First, we don't see "on crit" secondary effects triggered by "prevented crits" - resilience has always been a flat reduction in the attacker's crit% chance. The "when crit by an attacker" talents were changed so that Resilience wouldn't completely negate their benefit. So when GC says that "on-crit" secondary effects trigger anyways, the game disagrees with him.


Second, the post should have explained itself better. It said that RV gets hit twice with Resilience without explaining how.

RV seems like it would get affected by Resilience twice because Resilience reduces crit damage and reduces DoT damage. RV's DoT damage is based off of the initial crit damage; so resilience makes for smaller crits -> smaller initial RV DoT. Does Resilience then reduce that initial RV DoT? GC's response does not seem to understand this point. (How does Ignite work with Resilience, anyways?)

Someone should run a test on this mechanic. Use a starter weapon and a friend with a known amount of Resilience.

 

Skunkymunk

I searched the thread and could not find any definitive answers, so, is Torch of the Damned still Higher DPS than Felspine, or with the nerf to SoC has it been pushed back to doing less DPS than Felspine?

Thanks.

 

Stealthpally

Last time I checked Martyr / Blood was doing better dps then SoC.

 

Redcape

I don't have any really current information but I know at least as of 2.4 or so Ignite got double punishment from resilience. The dot was based on the reduced crit damage and then was reduced again by the dot reduction portion of resilience. I don't really expect anything has changed, nor do I expect that they will do anything about this component of RV. They wanted to make that talent increase pve dps dramatically (it does) and make it poor for pvp burst (it is). Since it is accomplishing exactly what the devs claim they were aiming for, don't expect any changes.

 

aylen86

Interesting change of mind... *sigh*

Source: WotLK Beta (US-English) Forums -> GC, In response to "Sigh" Response 11/3

 

flyingtoastr

That's fine. PvP ret will simply put the points somewhere else. There are plenty of other good PvP utilities those 5 points can go into.

My problem is that given that RV is holy damage it would be partially resistable. That's very bad for PvE.

Divine Favor still costs mana.

 

• Avitus

This is the most recent standing of professions:

So it would land somewhere in the middle, assuming perfect timing, but cost you a consumable. You can probably gain a slight bit more by using it at the same time as AW, but that's nothing to call home about.

My conclusion? Herbalism is definitely yet another good profession for DPS, but I wouldn't go for it specifically if I can get something that doesn't require consumables and gives a bonus.

 

Thorin

Speaking of professions,

I've been reading the forums, and haven't found much info on the Blacksmith-only weapons, like the Stormherald, etc.

Anyone got any light to shed on these?
I'm gathering mats, but am still unsure whether to go Engineering or Blacksmithing for the best DPS performance at entry lvl 80 dungeons, i.e. Naxx

 

Rasputin

There are no BoP BS epics ingame as of yet. They have hinted that they will drop them in dungeons, similar to what we saw in SSC/TK, BT/Hyjal and Sunwell. Nobody knows for sure though.