JoB is weird. For mobs that have spell reflect (such as the melee naga in SSC), it goes right through it. However, if a mobs is completely immune to spells (like those flying worms in Karazhan after Curator), it is also immune to JoB.

I have a question concerning the offtank abilities of a retri paladin. Is there a possibility to tank parts of addwaves in Hyjal (not the whole but some low mobs of those) in a way compareable to Furywarriors with 1h+Shield? My guild refuses to use Retripaladins over a second offensive warrior due to the fact that the warrior has the ability to use his shield and 1h to offtank.

Retri paladins are like 5 times better than fury warriors tanking trash in Hyjal. I think your guild is just biased towards warriors.

This is true, but they ARE hurt by SoB. But i agree Job is wierd.

About saying that paladins using tier sets will lose damage, aren't they already subpar anyway to paladins using warrior gear? Why are you using your tier set in the firstplace?

So assuming those set bonuses are actually worth using, as in the 2pT5 is still good when you have warrior gear from T6 instances, then maybe you'll have enough spell damage for the change to actually be a DPS loss, and even then I didn't go through the math but see every post saying something else about it being a DPS loss VS a DPS gain for someone who actually has that much spell damage.

All in all I do hope they make tier gear useful for more than the 2-piece set bonuses... I mean that's what tier gear is meant for. Wether they let paladins gain more from spell damage or remove the damage from the gear, I don't care, as long as it's actually good gear.

I just yesterday tanked all Hyjal trash as Retribution Paladin, I only have Redoubt from prot as I went for hit talents. Worked just fine. Then I just swap to DPS gear on boss. I think its plain stupid to not use Paladin, its so much of more dps when mages/warlocks can go pretty much all out AoE after killing few mobs singletarget. Only problem you have is if your other tanks dont know their job and let the Abominations stun you while you aoe tank. It is pretty much instakill no matter who aoe tanks when that happens (Disclaimer: Ofc it doesnt always happen, but its likely to cause problems).

I feel tanking waves in hyjal to be more benefitial to the raid than actually trying to kill something. The fury warrior running around can mostly grab 1 - 2 mobs on him while a retribution or holy paladin in proper tanking gear can grab whole pacts letting your MT's focusing on bigger targets like abominations. I'm quite pleased with the results of tanking with retribution sofar, I haven't tried it yet in 5 mans and am wondering if someone has experiance tanking heroics as retribution without improved righteous fury.

While clearing the second part of Black Temple yesterday I noticed something really annoying, JoW was pushed of on almost every boss from the debuff list. The change with our mages all respeccing fire is the cause I believe, with each individual taking up 2 extra debuff slots (Fireball dot, Ignite) compared to arcane pre 2.3. If I remember correctly blizzard implemented a priority system for debuffs and somehow I'm left to believe JoW is really low on it, beeing pushed of almost all the time when the debuff limit is reached.

The AP we break even at is where X * 0.33 = (150.6 - 46.4) = 104.2 damage

46.4 damage, using the average weapon damage of World Breaker * 10%.

The Torch of the Damned has 495.5 damage, which would gain 49.6 damage from the change.


That shaves the breakeven point down to 4285 AP. Closer, but since we were looking at a T4 paladin (now using a BT weapon?), I don't think he/she'll have that.


Also, for 0 +dmg from gear but using JotC:
JotC adds 219 * .4 = 87.6 damage

Gorehowl: (87.6-43.2) / .33 * 14 = 1884 AP
World Breaker: (87.6 - 46.4) / .33 * 14 = 1748 AP
Torch of the Damned: (87.6 - 49.6) / .33 * 14 = 1612 AP


I know I break 2k AP raid buffed pretty easily (BS+BoM) in T4/S1 gear (while not "properly" stacking AP), so as Eyonix said - those wearing warrior gear got buffed - Which is pretty much the main idea of the itemization fix.


Depends on ability use (/cough SoB) and raid buffs like WF totem.

But honestly, we just got buffed in 2.3. A small damage adjustment downwards isn't a big deal.


Anyways, merry Black Friday looting for those of you in US. = D

I've seen this as well. However, I found that as long as I meticulously refreshed all judgements with CS every 6 seconds, they were not pushed off (probably since they get dragged back to the top of debuff list upon refreshing).

Incidentally, the ideal SoB gear list I put together some pages back still holds true after the CS change, with the exception that [Signet of Primal Wrath] now outranks [Band of Devastation] by a teensy weensy amount (0.01 dps).

Again to the tanking question (sorry for messing up the thread):
Would it be a good idea for a horde retri paladin to get S3 armor (getting arenapoints is not a problem), filling the rest-slots up with the pve warrior epics from bt/hyjal and taking t6 for tanking purposes (so taking t6-tank-version).
Or which Tankitems do you use for not getting 1hit in Hyjal trash situations? Karaequip? Thanks in advance for your helpful answers.

Yes and no.. Since afaik Blizz allready confirmed pretty much that they were changing T4, T5 and T6 itemisation for the retribution set... as in removing all the SD stats. Which would probably also mean that the PvE-sets will become better for PvE purposes then the PvP sets. (Just like it is for all other classes, and how it should be.) (Source: WoW Forums -> Where is my ZA gear?)

But besides that we've no idea if Sunwell will include a new Tier-set as well, but at least we can be sure that the random plate drops there will be better then the S3 arena gear.

It goes through CloS and Spell Reflect, since it's counted as melee, but it does not work on the little wyrm thingies at KZ because the mobs are immune to Magical damage... in this case, holy. It's not the "melee" judgement, but the spell school of it

And if you use free action potions, even that is not an issue.

Which gear do you use for trashtanking? Is ZA and Karaequip enough? Or should it be much more?

Search is a pain, so i'll ask: How powerful compared to some of the higher end trinkets is the Crusade deck, and will it still be very good post CS adjustment patch in 2.3.2?

It's pretty safe to assume that they'll be removing the SD requirement from all abilities in a future patch. With their confirmed plans for ret paladins to be needing the exact same stats as DPS warriors.

Removing the SD-part from CS and converting it into AP, strength or weaponstats is just the first of many to come.
So SD trinkets will most likely become useless in the near future.

Ok, it's been 2 weeks since Bellator last posted anything here. Is there anyone brave enough to maintain the dps sheet, add the new items and update the skills? That'd be an awesome help for the rest of us excel noobs.

I'm getting my last vortex to craft my Lionheart Executioner. In light of this new Crusader Strike, should I enchant it with Executioner or Mongoose?

Some people claim that executioner for a blood elf is going to be superior in 2.3.2, but I have the most recent version of the spreadsheet and both mongoose and savagery top it by a significant margin.

From my noncomprehensive testings of executioner, I've been getting 25-33% uptimes, giving around -1 to +4 dps compared with savagery. This is in theory though since I have no clue if bellator's spreadsheet is counting 70Ap vs 210-277 armor penetration correctly.