Well from most of my math, mongoose is about 10 dps superior to savagery, which is marginally superior to executioner. End result is that executioner is not the best, imo. I'll be slapping mongoose on my new weapon when it drops.

if Mongoose indeed is ~10dps better than savagery in topend gear (lets say total of 17(sava, bellator)+10dps gain as a hypothesis), Executioner would need to give 360 armor penetration over time (again, bellators sheet). This comes to 42% uptime, needing 1.68 procs per minute. This is, atleast with seal of blood and windfury not achievable. Testing this far has shown the ppm to be roughly 1~1.2 depending on windfury.

Oh well, atleast there's always the "wtf" effect you get in PvP when it procs against a clothie

Well, that's unfortunate - I was hoping to play around with some armor penetration.

How about on a weapon like Cataclysm's Edge? I know that ArP becomes more effective with higher stacking of it.

The tests i've been doing have been performed with cataclysms edge + grips of silent justice and Shady dealers, giving 685 ArP.
Adding 1000 armor penetration to the spreadsheet "out of the blue", the effectivenes of Executioner at 30% uptime (1.2ppm) increases to 23 dps gain. Savagery with same set is 19. If we assume mongoose stays as a constant savagery dps+10, there willl be a breakpoint where Executioner might pull ahead. In this example, giving 1000 armor penetration "out of the blue", increased the effectiveness of executioner by roughly 3 dps.

Take the calculation with a grain of salt though, since it is somewhat based on the spreadsheet and I haven't performed any calculations on mongoose in practise.

Your calculations are wrong, Savagery is a constant 70 AP so it's a constant DPS upgrade. Moongoose scales as you upgrade your gear so the difference between the two increases with gear.

I'd say that executioner would probably scale a lot more as you add more Armour Penetration to your gear.
Especially if you consider all the other armour reducing debuffs around, ie sunder, faerie fire, CoR...

Might be the set you pull out especially for the clothie boss fights where enough of the ArP would put them on effectively 0 DR. ie Solarian, Shade of Aran, etc

It depends what boss you're talking about. Some bosses like Solarian are "squishy" and have low armor vales, some like Noobreaver have very high armor. The closer to zero you take their armor the more effective armor penetration is.

You also shouldn't compare Cataclysm's Edge to TotD since they are both have completely different stats. CE has a ton more Attack Power and a higher base DPS than TotD, but its topend is much lower, so it naturally falls a little behind TotD. If you want a real test you would have to do either CE with Executioner versus CE with Mongoose or TotD with Executioner vs. TotD with Mongoose.

Added:

Full item comparison - Author: Nuuga

MaxDPS.com: A World of Warcraft Formula Site - Paladin DPS Gear Rankings

How are the items being ranked?
- Currently, this is for Seal of Command Retribution Paladins only. Assuming an 8 (or 10 second depending on talents) damage cycle of normal attacks with SOC and then Judgement of Command and Crusader Strike.
- Based on this attack cycle, a DPS value based on the item's strength, attack power, agility, +hit, +crit and +spell damage are calculated.
- Also relative mob level is taken into account as you can see in the full attack table below.

That site needs to have a "max hit" filter, since it rates a lot of items very high even though they have a lot of item points spent on Hit Rating.

And are those values for ArP correct? It's saying that the CE will do more dps than Torch. Seems a little high, given that 1/3 of our dps is Holy.

Doing the math with the spreadsheet, applying all of those to the target, I still get mongoose at the lead by a strong margin (as a blood elf using SoB) on both weapons. But I will mention that executioner is less "sucky" on a cataclysms. I really don't feel that armor pen is a good stat for us (at least for now) because we still have a significant portion of our damage as magic.

Make sure you're inputting your stats correctly. If you set your hit rating over the cap, then it will not affect the rankings.

I'm too lazy to do the math, but my guess is that the armor pen you would need to have would need to be quite large, enough so that the sacrifice in other stats makes it not worth it at any point. Maybe when WotLK comes out this will change... but as of right now 65% of melee damage doesn't warrant it for me, where I could get str or crit which affects 90+% of my abilities.

The way that I see it, having crit at around 25% unbuffed is more enough to keep vengeance always up and from there on.. more strength!!! =D

That being said, my gem choices are usually: +8 str, +4 crit/+4 str, +12 sta and 3mana/5.

First, thanks for this great piece on Retri Theorycraft on the net!

I'm actually not sure speccing Imp BoM or Imp SoC, my question is depending on the dps effect of both. I've used the linked DPS Spreadsheet in this Post to calculate the difference between both:

3% Crit through ImpSoc ( self only ) : ~10 dps
~40 AP through ImpBoM ( raid ) : ~10 dps + raid dps increase

I think with ~30% base Crit it isn't necessary, since the 2.3 Patch buff of Vengenance, to stack more personal Crit to ensure Vengenance staying up all the time. So I decided to use Imp BoM.

Any suggestions would be nice.

Greets Leonti aka Celeon

p.s.: Sorry for my cruel english typo ...

The 3% crit from SC (or Improved SoC now I suppose) is raid wide. Its your biggest contributor to raid DPS and your second main raid utility. If you're a raiding Ret Pally you have to get it. It turns a "dead" Judgement to everyone except yourself into an incredible DPS buff.

Improved BoM is a "meh" talent IMO. Getting Pursuit of Justice and BoK seems more valuable to me, but that is because my guild runs with a raidbitch holydin who has Improved BoM. Most of the time you'll be single Salving yourself anyway unless you have an excess number of pallys, so it isn't worth the 5 points in most cases.

*damn* i swapped Imp SoC and Sanctified Seals Description. My fault ... *vanish* Thanks

I'm not sure if I read your post correctly, but unless I'm wrong, Windfury Totem does not have an internal 3sec cooldown. You're thinking of the Windfury weapon buff that is exclusive to Shamans.

Regardless, Haste is not a good stat for Retribution Paladins. Having it only effect ~45% of our total damage makes it a poor stat to stack as opposed to Strength.

Those estimations are pretty reasonable to make. The difference in valuations will be pretty minimal.

There is no WF cooldown.

sorry guys....

had the s3 gloves on...false alarm. was wondering why I had 115% cs dmg. already cleared that up. sad panda.

Right now, according to the spreadsheet, DST appears to be the absolute best SoB trinket, well over anything else in value (except maybe Crusade card). I'm wondering if it's really so or if the spreadsheet overvalues it somehow.

Not true for Horde.

Dunno, according to WWS around 80% of my damage is physical. Maybe you should stop using SoR

Haste does not effect Crusader Strike's cooldown