Retribution DPS Theorycraft - Page 42

galzohar · 11/07/07, 5:47 PM

edit: my numbers were wrong, read the description wrong, just forget it (or do it yourself ;p)

Also I wonder why such a big loss of spell damage and armor reduction was translated into so little STR, meaning the overall item level was reduced as well or you're not counting some stat.

Argavaine · 11/07/07, 6:22 PM

ok, I forgott the normalization to 3,3 but that only counts to AP so CS dmg :

82 str -> 90.2 str -> 180.4 ap -> 12.88 dps -> 42.52 damage (assumine normalized 3.3)

spelldmg have no connection to weapon speed it is 40% -> 154 spelldmg 61,6damage (the difference is even bigger :-) )

It is difficult to count normal attacks because you dont know how many of them can land but if you use a pvp weapon 3,6 speed that means that you can make 0,9 judgements during the time of 2 swings 7,2 sec (46,4 x2) -> Judgement does 65,6 dmg (154 *1,1 SA *0,43coef *0,9time)

ok dmg str in 7,2 sec:

cs - 42,52*1,2=51,02
aa - 46,4*2=92,8
judgement - 0
consecration - 0
SoC (7ppm) 0,84 procs - 46,4*0,7*1.1SA*0,84=30,01
---------
173,83 dmg over 7,2 sec

dmg spelldmg 7,2 sec:

cs - 61,6*1,2=73,44
aa - 0
judgement - 65,6
concecration - 154*0,95coef*0,9time*1.1 SA-160,93
SoC - 154*1.1SA*0,2coef*0,84=28,46 (ok small lose)
------------

167,5 dmg over 7,2 sec without consecration 328,4 with consecration

We have almost the same dmg numbers without consecration (str and spelldmg) if you would add armor penetration wich depends from your targets total armour old S3 version becomes even more better. You often cannot land 2 swings on your target because pvp is mobile but if your target is immobilized than you can use consecration for your burst (hammer stun) and the numbers become absolutly stupid in favor of old S3.

here are 2 links to Cromfels HP (thx Cromfel :-) )with old and new set :

new http://cromfel.battlefield.fi/wow/retribution/gear.gif

old http://cromfel.battlefield.fi/wow/re...on/season3.jpg

SomeoneRandom · 11/07/07, 6:27 PM

Originally Posted by galzohar

Going by your numbers:
Also I wonder why such a big loss of spell damage and armor reduction was translated into so little STR, meaning the overall item level was reduced as well or you're not counting some stat.

One of the things that has been said time and again by blizzard is that a smaller spread of stats = loss of itemization points...

So when we had armor pen and spell dmg on the gear we actually had more itemization points spent than what actually got converted into str because we lost the spread...

Sort of how a green item "of the Tiger" Something like 10/10 compared to an equal level "of Strength" with only 15 str...

Either way though, the items are stronger as they are now.

flyingtoastr · 11/07/07, 6:29 PM

Originally Posted by galzohar

Also I wonder why such a big loss of spell damage and armor reduction was translated into so little STR, meaning the overall item level was reduced as well or you're not counting some stat.

It seems that the more of a single stat on an item the more expensive it becomes.

For example, I have seen green wands of same type (forgot the exact name) with two different stat sets. One was "of the Owl" and has 11 INT and 11 SPI. The other was "of intellect" and only had 18 INT. Therefore it would make sense to assume that the more of one stat you pile onto an item the more expensive each point of that stat is. So even though you're losing a lot of SD and Armor Pen. on the items, since its all being dumped into STR (which there was a good amount of to begin with) you don't get an equal amount of STR since each consecutive point costs more and more of the item budget.

Argavaine · 11/07/07, 6:33 PM

Originally Posted by SomeoneRandom

Either way though, the items are stronger as they are now.

Maybe with SoB but normally it is not often used in pvp (even by the horde :-) ), look at my last post. The numbers tell a different story. You can tell me if I did some mistake but this way we lose dmg and also important heal.

Argavaine · 11/07/07, 6:51 PM

One more thing to add, I would love to see the spelldmg removed from all our sets. It is for sure the right way but if they do this they have to fix some mechanics (f. ex. AP dependancy of our instant attacks instead of spelldmg dependancy or AP-> Spelldmg talent.....400 mana for 240 dmg JoCs is not funny).
The best way for it would be to give us AP-> 30% heal talent, that would give us the same healing as shamans but only 10% Spelldmg (180 spelldmg -1800AP) similar to pvp set because our dmg scales better with spelldmg (shock vs CS, SoC, JoC)

SomeoneRandom · 11/07/07, 11:53 PM

Originally Posted by Argavaine

One more thing to add, I would love to see the spelldmg removed from all our sets. It is for sure the right way but if they do this they have to fix some mechanics (f. ex. AP dependancy of our instant attacks instead of spelldmg dependancy or AP-> Spelldmg talent.....400 mana for 240 dmg JoCs is not funny).
The best way for it would be to give us AP-> 30% heal talent, that would give us the same healing as shamans but only 10% Spelldmg (180 spelldmg -1800AP) similar to pvp set because our dmg scales better with spelldmg (shock vs CS, SoC, JoC)

Yes, personally I would love to see a change like this... realistically the biggest reason I think most people go for spell damage in PvP is for the healing capabilities... I would honestly love to see a change to completely take spell damage off our gear and our melee skills (CS and SOC) and add in a talent that was 30% AP ---> Healing and 10% AP ---> Spell Damage.
From the looks of it though, blizzard seems to think they have done enough for this patch =\ Hopefully some more goodies get added by the time it goes live though.

Kris · 11/08/07, 4:14 AM

Seems bellator went missing here, but in case he comes back, please add Ashtongue Talisman of Zeal to the spreadsheet.

bellator · 11/08/07, 4:26 AM

Originally Posted by Kris

Seems bellator went missing here, but in case he comes back, please add Ashtongue Talisman of Zeal to the spreadsheet.

I am still around, just been exceptionally busy at work etc recently. Will try to answer any questions i can about the spreadsheet later today.

Antiock · 11/08/07, 9:14 AM

Does anyone happen to know if [Libram of Divine Judgement] has a hidden cooldown or something? That item seems pretty amazing....almost enough to make me want to use Command instead of Blood.

Sapp · 11/08/07, 11:50 AM

No internal cooldown, 40% proc rate, IIRC.

It was out-performing even the the broken Libram of Avengement that gave you the buff any time you refreshed a judgement with melee (meaning it had 100% uptime).

LockApologist · 11/08/07, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by Sapp

No internal cooldown, 40% proc rate, IIRC.

It was out-performing even the the broken Libram of Avengement that gave you the buff any time you refreshed a judgement with melee (meaning it had 100% uptime).

You sure? By the spreadsheet, SoB w/ Avengement still outperforms SoC w/ 200 AP libram, assuming you don't carry a lot of +dmg or swap other gear.

I have no doubt that 200 AP > + crit if you're already using SoC.

Sapp · 11/08/07, 1:32 PM

Well, for soc vs sob I'm not going to go into that, 5-10% better overall damage from a simply better Seal easily beats a libram which is the equivalent of passive 100 AP.

But if you're actually using SoC because you're one of us alliance losers, the new libram absolutely destroys Avengement.

flyingtoastr · 11/08/07, 3:02 PM

Originally Posted by LockApologist

You sure? By the spreadsheet, SoB w/ Avengement still outperforms SoC w/ 200 AP libram, assuming you don't carry a lot of +dmg or swap other gear.

I have no doubt that 200 AP > + crit if you're already using SoC.

I can guarantee that this result is only because of how much more powerful SoB is as a spell than SoC and has little to do with the librams. If there was a libram equivalent to 200 AP from Blood it would also destroy Avengement. If you're a BE ret pally, stick with Blood and Avengement (hell Blood and [Libram of Souls Redeemed] would most likely still do more DPS than Command and the new libram). If you're alliance, there is no reason not to be using it.

LockApologist · 11/08/07, 3:14 PM

Originally Posted by flyingtoastr

I can guarantee that this result is only because of how much more powerful SoB is as a spell than SoC and has little to do with the librams. If there was a libram equivalent to 200 AP from Blood it would also destroy Avengement. If you're a BE ret pally, stick with Blood and Avengement (hell Blood and [Libram of Souls Redeemed] would most likely still do more DPS than Command and the new libram). If you're alliance, there is no reason not to be using it.

Sorry to not clarifying. I failed to look left on the post I quoted to see Human, and I was going with the poster who asked the original question mentioning they might switch to SoC over Blood.

I agree that SoB is better (and I'm glad to have it ;p), and if you're ally, you should get the new libram. No questions.