I believe a weapon upgrade would be the largest overall increase in your damage, compared to spending an equal amount of honor/arena points on armor pieces.
Also, keep in mind that the season 3 set is more properly itemized for Retribution, insofar as a lack of spell damage and more STR (and most importantly for PvP, actual resilience). This currently only applies to Crusader Strike (and SoB), but its not unreasonable to expect that SoC and other Ret abilities will be given the same no-spell-efficient-but-more-melee-coefficient revamp sooner or later.
Edit: The Season 3 gloves are amazing for buffing your Crusader Strike damage.
So I'm curious about something now that my guild is working on RoS.
With the randomness that is inherent in SoC is it hard to keep your incoming damage under control during phase 2, specifically during a deaden? I would assume you wouldn't want to pop AW in case of a WF/SoC crit string, but has anyone come close enough to killing themselves that they have to stop attacking during deadens?
With the randomness that is inherent in SoC is it hard to keep your incoming damage under control during phase 2, specifically during a deaden? I would assume you wouldn't want to pop AW in case of a WF/SoC crit string, but has anyone come close enough to killing themselves that they have to stop attacking during deadens?
Get a Druid to roll a lifebloom on you and you'll never notice your health go down.
So I'm curious about something now that my guild is working on RoS.
With the randomness that is inherent in SoC is it hard to keep your incoming damage under control during phase 2, specifically during a deaden? I would assume you wouldn't want to pop AW in case of a WF/SoC crit string, but has anyone come close enough to killing themselves that they have to stop attacking during deadens?
So I'm curious about something now that my guild is working on RoS.
With the randomness that is inherent in SoC is it hard to keep your incoming damage under control during phase 2, specifically during a deaden? I would assume you wouldn't want to pop AW in case of a WF/SoC crit string, but has anyone come close enough to killing themselves that they have to stop attacking during deadens?
I havent died a single time in RoS due reflect damage, not even once. Never... So I assume it isnt bad to heal even with Deaden + AW + Haste Pot and still they have managed to keep me alive.
So I'm curious about something now that my guild is working on RoS.
With the randomness that is inherent in SoC is it hard to keep your incoming damage under control during phase 2, specifically during a deaden? I would assume you wouldn't want to pop AW in case of a WF/SoC crit string, but has anyone come close enough to killing themselves that they have to stop attacking during deadens?
Just use common sense and if you get very low stop attacking. You take 50% of the damage you do, chain heals should cover it nicely, but if you try hard you can usually get yourself killed. Our warriors had a habit of killing themselves with execute + rage from damage taken + execute during deadens since each execute feeds the subsequent ones.
So I'm curious about something now that my guild is working on RoS.
With the randomness that is inherent in SoC is it hard to keep your incoming damage under control during phase 2, specifically during a deaden? I would assume you wouldn't want to pop AW in case of a WF/SoC crit string, but has anyone come close enough to killing themselves that they have to stop attacking during deadens?
Only thing I do is pay attention to deaden timers and I try not to CS during a deaden. If you get a CS/WF/SOC and most of them crit during a deaden it's likely you'll die. Never happened to me, but I've dropped myself below 20% from 100% a few times with lucky crit/proc chains without the help of a deaden.
Also for AW timers, what I usually do is blow it once during P1 for the initial burn then it's up again for the final P3 burn. Another thing in P3, save your AW for when he's getting low, you don't want to pop AW early on in P3 due to the nature of the fight you do more damage as time goes on so save it for later. What I like to do is wait for the last 20 seconds of my lust in P3 (we lust around ~80%) and then pop AW/Trinket/Haste potions and go to town. Big numbers!
So I'm curious about something now that my guild is working on RoS.
With the randomness that is inherent in SoC is it hard to keep your incoming damage under control during phase 2, specifically during a deaden? I would assume you wouldn't want to pop AW in case of a WF/SoC crit string, but has anyone come close enough to killing themselves that they have to stop attacking during deadens?
I pretty much bursted myself down a couples of time back when we were learning the fight. If i am in a Windfury group, ill end auto-attacking and spamming crusader strike every 6sec. without any seal up(or using SoR because it cant crit . Or ill seal Seal Of Command and auto-attack with it without using Crusader Strike at all, keeping only 1 judgment up(usually JoL on phase 2 and phase 3). Edit: I only do that during the Deaden.
I could probably push a bit more damage, but better be safe than sorry since phase 3 is a DPS race, we dont want anyone to dies in phase 2.
Just for fun, I decided to play it dumb last week and use SoB instead of SoC on ROS phase 2... I didn't die but during deadens I certainly came close a few times. That being said, if I asked one of the druids to roll a lifebloom on me, as mentioned earlier, im 100% sure i'd be fine even with the increased reflect damage. Also, I have a sneaky suspicion that using SoB made RoS drop the first torch for my guild (which I won, finally an endgame weapon!), so I'm probably going to keep using it until I kill myself to keep my superstitions going.
I've read a few of you mentioning (as well as the spreadsheet) that the Alchemist's Stone is one of the best raiding trinkets for SoC pallies, but I'm not sure I understand why it's such a better contender for SoC than SoB. I assumed that horde and alli pallies alike would benefit from consecration spam mixed with their normal rotation (mana allowing of course). So is there another reason that it's usefulness is so varying? The difference in its value on Bellator's spreadsheet leads me to think I'm missing something obvious. I'm trying to decide on a secondary profession to replace mining and it's a debate between alch for the stone, ench for the ring enchants, or engi... for fun? Then again, the LW drums might be something I could consider as well.
On a quick side question, the spreadsheet shows the lionheart being decisively better than the stormherald for raid dps, and yet from my experience I've run into far fewer pallies wieling the lionheart exe. Is this simply due to the stun proc and sta for pvp? My deep thunder rarely procs so I have a hard time justifying not switching over to the lionheart once I get my final vortex.
Final inquiry! Bellator's spreadsheet has mongoose marked higher than executioner for raid dps -- I haven't heard much on the debate recently, has it been put to rest that mongoose does outshine executioner in terms of raid dps or is it still up in the air and dependent on additional armor penetration from gear?
I appreciate the help guys, this thread has been unimaginably useful in helping me perform better than my guild ever expected as ret. Thank you all!
On a quick side question, the spreadsheet shows the lionheart being decisively better than the stormherald for raid dps, and yet from my experience I've run into far fewer pallies wieling the lionheart exe. Is this simply due to the stun proc and sta for pvp? My deep thunder rarely procs so I have a hard time justifying not switching over to the lionheart once I get my final vortex.
From a pure raid DPS standpoint the sword is much better than Stormherald. It has more strength and crit as well as a proc that is very useful (and powerful) in PvE. The difference really comes down to the stamina on SH (the proc rate on the stun is so low its not worth mentioning). For overall utility, that stamina comes in very useful for soloing/PvP/Naj'entus etc. IMO is more or a personal choice thing, both are excellent weapons and you can't go wrong with either. If you absolutely must maximize your DPS to the highest amount possible then the Sword is better.
And as a personal aside, thanks to everyone for you input on the RoS encounter. I'm crossing my fingers for a Torch when we get her down.
RoS dropped the torch yesterday.
And our Warrior took it :/
Did he have more DKP or was he given priority over you? If it's the latter I'd suggest you simply leave that guild as warriors should use 2-handers only for pvp.
Did he have more DKP or was he given priority over you? If it's the latter I'd suggest you simply leave that guild as warriors should use 2-handers only for pvp.
? I think our ret paladin came to an agreement with our arms warrior that the ret paladin would pass on the Archimonde weapon, and the warrior would pass on the RoS one - but arms warrior bring a bigger increase in raid DPS than fury, as bloodfrenzy more than covers the gap in damage in most situations if you bring a normal amount of melee DPS.
That said, both weapons are excellent for arms/ret, come to an informal agreement with your guildmates.
The question for me sort of remains. As a belf pala, do I want the alchemy trinket, chugging manapots and spamming concecration or go without it and do hastepots? And can the seal of blood proc crit? And does it even matter. Hohum. Going to down the spreadsheet and do some testing, but Im a bit limited due to insane amounts of work .. at work...
The question for me sort of remains. As a belf pala, do I want the alchemy trinket, chugging manapots and spamming concecration or go without it and do hastepots? And can the seal of blood proc crit? And does it even matter. Hohum. Going to down the spreadsheet and do some testing, but Im a bit limited due to insane amounts of work .. at work...
As a belf I recommend that you don't bother with the alchemy trinket. Stick to some-type of dps trinket and drop haste potions over mana potions. With JoW on a mob I rarley have any mana problems and the way haste scales with SoB every haste potion is quite a nice dps boost. Not to mention the fact as a BE your gear should be pure warriors gear, meaning no +spell damage which equals pretty lousy consecrate damage. SoB sure can crit. Nothing like getting a white/wf attack crit and then having both seal of blood procs crit from it. I'll admit I haven't plugged any numbers into the spreadsheet, but I'm going off of personal experience (bt/hyjal farming).
? I think our ret paladin came to an agreement with our arms warrior that the ret paladin would pass on the Archimonde weapon, and the warrior would pass on the RoS one - but arms warrior bring a bigger increase in raid DPS than fury, as bloodfrenzy more than covers the gap in damage in most situations if you bring a normal amount of melee DPS.
That said, both weapons are excellent for arms/ret, come to an informal agreement with your guildmates.
Yes our arms warrior and I agreed that even though the Archimonde weapon slightly out performs the RoS weapon for a retribution pala, that a arms warrior would benfit more from the swords then maces. His quote was "mace are for pvp and swords for pve" so I have no clue why the warrior in jokermn's guild took it over a retri paladin which is pretty much selfish even if he had more DKP.
That said, i wouldnt mind picking up the Archimonde sword when it drops for the second time even if it does kill my dkp, but knowing my luck with weapons niether weapons will drop for me.
So I'm curious about something now that my guild is working on RoS.
With the randomness that is inherent in SoC is it hard to keep your incoming damage under control during phase 2, specifically during a deaden? I would assume you wouldn't want to pop AW in case of a WF/SoC crit string, but has anyone come close enough to killing themselves that they have to stop attacking during deadens?
I use seal of light. I save the wings and SoB for when deaden's not up. Yes, it seriously nerfs DPS but it's better than dying.
Just for fun, I decided to play it dumb last week and use SoB instead of SoC on ROS phase 2... I didn't die but during deadens I certainly came close a few times. That being said, if I asked one of the druids to roll a lifebloom on me, as mentioned earlier, im 100% sure i'd be fine even with the increased reflect damage. Also, I have a sneaky suspicion that using SoB made RoS drop the first torch for my guild (which I won, finally an endgame weapon!), so I'm probably going to keep using it until I kill myself to keep my superstitions going.
I thought so too, until I critted white (6k)+sob (4k)+windfury(6.4k) and SoB(4k). I was dead instantly.
Side question.
When raiding as retri, do you guys mostly judge wis and do blood / command? Id figure socru was the best, but seeing Strifen recommending me wisdom and blood, socru and 3% raid-crit is lost.
Side question.
When raiding as retri, do you guys mostly judge wis and do blood / command? Id figure socru was the best, but seeing Strifen recommending me wisdom and blood, socru and 3% raid-crit is lost.
I don't mean you judge wisdom, I mean in a raid setting when it's been judged on a mob (via another paladin). In raids you should judge crusader, if you have two holy paladins have the second judge wisdom, if you have three then have the third judge light.
Side question.
When raiding as retri, do you guys mostly judge wis and do blood / command? Id figure socru was the best, but seeing Strifen recommending me wisdom and blood, socru and 3% raid-crit is lost.
What most raids do is have the other paladins judge wisdom/light and you judge your imp sotc and hold them all up. If you absolutely have to choose, I personally start with sotc and switch to wisdom midway if its a boss that's likely to give people mana issues. It's rare that another pally cant judge wisdom to help you though.
12/09/07, 10:28 PM
. Or ill seal Seal Of Command and auto-attack with it without using Crusader Strike at all, keeping only 1 judgment up(usually JoL on phase 2 and phase 3). Edit: I only do that during the Deaden.
