Can anyone confirm/deny that the damage portion of [Ashtongue Talisman of Zeal] is affected by percentage modifiers such as Sanctity Aura and Vengeance?

Confirmed. Was ticking for as much as 163 in Terrokar with full Vengeance + Sanctity. With no buffs, ticks for 123/124 against elementals (with Crusade).

Raika, sorry for the delayed reply.

In terms of boss assumptions, the spreadsheet assumes the boss is a lvl73 mob with 7700 armour (the highests of all boss mobs in BT). It assumes you are attacking from behind. It takes into account misses, dodges, glancing blows, partial resists and full resists. It also assumes you are continuosly attacking with zero lag and a perfect rotation, and assumes you use all CD's such as heroism, trinkets etc etc on cooldown

The reasons why you will be seeing a higher than expected DPS is one or more of the following:-

1) It does not factor in lag

2) There are very few if any boss fights where the boss simply stands still and lets you continuously hit him without interruption. Take SSC as an example. Hydross moves and dps needs to slow each transistion plus he can iceblock you. Lurker does his geyser and vanishes. Leo whirlwinds, Morogrim water tombs you, Karathress requires movement between bosses, and vajsh requires movement and has adds in phase 2. If there was a test dummy boss in Shattrah you could hit without any effects stopping you then these levels of dps would probably be reached, but until then it's essential to realise this is optimal dps not the dps you will see in every fight.

3) It's worthwhile checking the "Skill Usage" section to check you are using these spells in your rotation at the CD set

Hope that helps

Did you also have the "Vindicator's Pendant of Triumph" listed? I think this problem you have mentioned has been resolved and will be in the next version.

Regarding limiting the level of loot this is a great idea i do want in, but it could prove a bugger to code. Hopefully i will get to it at some point, but dont expect it in the next version of the sheet.

Could someone explain why a raid leader would take a rogue over a Ret paladin with similar gear (2k AP/30% crit/Hit cap).
Talking BT here.

Rogue would, with similar gear, only edge out between 300-400 more DPS, if in the same melee group. Is this completely wrong?

How much MORE dps would a rogue need over a Ret Pally to sacrifice the extra blessing/+3% crit to raid/judgements /2% damage to party ETC. Very interested (and subbed) ret pally.

Well, just look at your Raid DPS. You do give your're Raid 3% Crit.

Anyhow, will be hard to calculate. Ticks/DoTs do not Crit, some Classes Crit for 150% (Shadowpriests), some 175%, some 200, some 230%. Have fun looking up a WWS report for your guild and making the calculation.

Then 2% Damge for your Group. The Man-Reg (Average 122 MP/5 per Player!!) from Post No. 1 and 1 extra blessing.

Depends very much on Raid DPS and Raid Composition.

I personally would always bring the Ret. Someone takes the gear that is dissed if he is not there and I love synergies.

As said previously, DPS contribution is extremely case by case... depends on raid composition, party make-ups and what you're fighting. There is no real numbers to shown that will apply to EVERY case.

And even if raiders are comparatively geared, it doesn't mean they're on the same level playing field. I've met some goddamn awful raiders and I wonder how they ever got their way through karazhan or even heroics for that matter without some sort of warning bell going off.

Maybe a raid leader prefers one player over another, maybe the other raider comes with full consumables, well-read, repair money, on time and is very easy going in to what his role is in the raid. I've also known some rogues to blow great big freaking holes out of the other dps in the meters. We have a rogue that consistently tops TK meters.. and this is TK where you spend on fight twiddling your thumbs and another competing with heavy aoe dps.

I know from experience that gear means nothing other than a fancy dress code compared to some of the aforementioned points.

If you're looking for a post that will end all arguments with your raid leader, you sure as hell won't find it here.

Although if your raid leader likes a good read.... then there is 50+ pages to flick through... =]

Well, it looks like 2.4 wont be hitting PTR this week, but to console ourselves, here's version 30 of the spreadsheet with lots of goodies:-

jwhalley Profile, jwhalley Details - FileFront.com

Changes

1) Item Analysis has now had an upgrade. When running the analysis you can choose to include / ignore items from certain locations. These are currently broken down into:-
-Pre Raid
-Karazhan / Gruul / Mag
-Zul Aman
-SSC / TK
-MH / BT
-PvP
-Badge Loot
-Craftables
-User Added (items you have added)

Limiting which items to look at speeds up the analysis

2) Ring Enchants (Stats, Striking) have been added in the gear selection area

3) Scroll of Strength V has been added under buffs

4) Improved Divine Spirit has been added (Note: Since this is the only buff that relies on the paladins spirit, and the buffed spirit of a paladin does not vary that much from pre raid to tier 6 raiding, i have decided not to model in spirit into the current model as it is too time consuming and not worth the effort. Instead on the line where this buff is present, you can enter your buffed spirit and it will add the respective spell damage. This wont change when you change gear etc, but since any variations are very small, the inaccuracy this would bring into the dps calculations is extremely minor. If spirit ever becomes a more useful stat for paladins i will of course model this in

5) Arcan Torrent Has been added for the belfs

6) Bug Fix. Previously correctly gemmed weapons were not getting the socket bonus. They are now

7) Bug Fix. An error would occur in item analysis when certain items were equipped. This is fixed

8) Bug Fix. An error would occur when adding items to the database if the database window was hidden. This is fixed.

I plan to add in more racials in future versions. Plus if someone can provide the correct stats for a naked, talentless level 70 human/blood elf, then i will add these in.

Also, please note there have been lots of new features added in the last few versions, so I imagine there are still a number of bugs lurking around. Let me know if you find them

Happy DPSing

First of all, Thanks for the spreadsheet Bellator =)

a bug with the new V30: When i go to item compare and click Analyse items, im getting the following error:
Error 1004: method Range of object _Global failed.

Is that something on my end i can fix or a general bug?

I just want to echo every one else's appreciation for the spreadsheet, Bellator. It's very informative, and kinda fun to play around with.

Would it be possible to add [Thundering Skyfire Diamond] to the spreadsheet?

Hi, can you give some extra information on this please. Does this bug always occcur if did it occur when you changed certain gear or added your own items etc. Also, what version of Excel are you using? I've been able to get this bug myself.



Antiock, will try and get that gem in next version

Occurs both if i change stuff, or if i just start up the spreadsheet and go straight into item calc and click the button. Using Excel XP from the Microsoft Office XP Small Business Pack (running it on Vista though, might be a problem?).

When i click the Problem solving button, i get this http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/8193/errorrl8.jpg

Hope it helps a bit, im quite a PC noob myself so dont expect too much =(

hmm, odd. What version of Excel are you using. 2000/3/7? Click on "help"-->About Microsoft Excel to find out.

Do all the other functions in the spreadsheet work?

Yeah...i....er....kinda invented the new "Green" gem socket with this version /whistles

I've e-mailed blizzard to ask them if they would change all gear in game to use green instead of blue sockets. However if they fail to accomodate my simple request, will change the spreadsheet for the next version

Sais here.. Microsoft Excel 2002 (10.2614.2625)
hmm.

When would you say, gear-wise, that retribution starts to come into its own for a young paladin?

After two years of playing and raiding my warlock, I took a paladin to 70, and am enjoying the pally very much (over the past month at 70), but I have severe self-inflicted trauma around what spec to stick with long term and possibly swap into our raids with if I switch mains.

What I like about retribution is that I can compete in PVP and all kinds of PVE without spec changes, really, and beating on mobs with large weapons is a nice shift from ranged spellcasting.

However, in the few Kara runs I've taken my pally to, with a smattering of some 7 or so epics (one of them Thunder - not quite to the point of upgrading to Deep Thunder yet), putting out some 400 dps is a bit underwhelming, and I'm wondering about the feel of the class as I gain gear, and when it starts to feel stronger.

Further, unless I am taking a lot of incidental damage, mana is a huge issue, when wearing warrior dps gear. I have read of retribution pallies chaining haste potions (I am horde), but even chaining mana potions I have mana issues.

I pop CS every time it is up and judge SoB every time it is up (waiting only if it would interfere with CS).

My spec, for Kara, was 5/8/44 with the first 5 retribution points in Imp Might (none in Benediction after reading that the mana savings are very minimal due to its interaction with Sanctified Judgement).

If anyone else has ever had a huge conflict of their own creation around whether to be full prot, prot/holy hybrid, full holy, or retribution, please have mercy and give some advice and words of wisdom around getting the most ouf of retrubiton and what it takes to start feeling more of the love retribution seems to promise

You still aren't loaded into the Armory, so I'll have to comment on your cycle only. A quick gander at your WWS report tells me that your cycle isn't very tight at all. For example, on your Prince Malchezaar attempt, your first Judgement cycle was 12 seconds long, your second was 14 seconds long, and your third was another 14 seconds long. You're also not resealing until a second or more afterwards. The next time you log on, create a macro that looks like this:

#showtooltip Judgement
/cast Judgement
/cast Seal of Blood

This is your new Judgement hotkey. Whenever you use Judgement, it will immediately reapply Seal of Blood, so you'll never have to delay for a swing timer, or worry about DPS loss from Seal uptime again.

As for your actual cycle:

1. Seal of Command (or Blood) must always be active while in melee range.
2. Crusader Strike must always be prioritized over Judgement.
3. (2) must not infringe upon (1).

If you're executing a cycle that follows those rules, you end up with a rotation that looks exactly like the first timeline here:



What this means is that you won't want to use your Judgement macro within 1.5 seconds of Crusader Strike coming off cooldown, or you'll run into DPS loss. However, if you have only one point in Improved Judgement, that should never happen as it's a perfect 9 second cycle.

It should happen on show/hide details, strength gems and correct gems as well.
It's fixable on your end(at least with Office 2007). You need to find the lotus compatibility settings and check the "Transition formula entry" for all tabs(Character and Item Calc at least)

In Office 2007 they are under excel options/advanced at the bottom.

I have no clue as to why you need it but maybe bellator can enlighten us.

Lotus Compatibility Setting! I have never used Lotus in my life.

Whenever programming macro's, since i dont really have a in depth knowledge of the codeing i generally run the record macro first to see which processes it's calling to do certain things then write the code based on this. So why it would be calling lotus functions i have no idea. Damn Excel.

When turning on Insane Strength to compare it to Haste potions, it seems to be adding 15 strength instead of 120.

I actually did extensive research into this, and a lot of math. There was a post earlier in this thread (page was in the mid-30's i think) that showed some of the math. The rogues in my guild are VERY good... consistently over 1900 dps on pure burn fights, so I had a tough time convincing them to kick a rogue out of the enh sham group. At around equal item levels, looking PURELY at dps, its better to put a rogue in a non-buff group and move a ret pally in there, IF they want to bring a ret pally. If you run with only 2 holy pallies, i'd say the 3rd blessing and keeping 3 judgements up puts you way past a rogue in terms of utility, even if you did 500 dps.

Why kick a rogue out of the dps group for a ret pally? The math is fairly simple, but what follows is for BLOOD ELFS ONLY. I'd say rogues get a equal or drop more from UR cause the extra AP affects both their OH and MH, even if they have slightly lower ap on average. For us, more AP affects the white hit AND SoB dmg. However, the added benefit of WF (since one of our specials procs off WF and thats not the case for a rogue, also only a rogue's MH procs wf) gives us a big advantage, as well as the extra benefit we get from SoE (a 2.2 multiplier before buffs). Plus, a rogue can always put a poison on their MH if they don't get a dps group, we'd have to put on a weightstone which is far less useful. From my experience, i gain anywhere from 400-600 dps being in the melee dps group, I haven't seen rogues get more than 250-300. The fact that you are buffing raid dps (even ifyou are switching a lower dps person into the group) should be enough reason. PLUS, if you have a stacked dps group, the ret pally adds 2% dmg to the group, where as a rogue would add nothing.

The real problem comes if your guild rolls with more than 2 rogues. My guild typically puts 2 rogues, me, a dps warrior, and an enhancement shaman in the dps group. I didn't replace a rogue, but rather the feral druid, since I got more from joining than the feral druid did, but provide an approximately equal buff (5% crit is around as good a 2% dmg to a group like i mentioned). If your guild runs with 3 or more, then yea, I'd say there may not be room for you as ret until you start bringing one less rogue

Sorry bout the wall of text, just wanted to share what I've learned

Thanks alot, this "Transition formula entry" worked like a charm, its all fixed now

Just one more question for Bellator - Does the spreadsheet correctly note down the fact that haste also increases the amount of SoB procs you get, as it is every hit and the proc chance doesnt go down the faster your hitting?

Edit: Seeing as i'm quite the noob, it works now, but can someone please explain how the Item Calc works? Managed to input my items and calculate it, but im getting some weird numbers. The numbers range from 0.something to about 28, is this number the increase in dps you get from the concerning item? I'm quite worried with some of the items popping up =P (just for my information, how much +% hit does the spreadsheet assume you need?)