SomeoneRandom

I know Mages used to use a blade of wizardry and swap it on, I imagine you could do the same with something like this... It would probably net you a decent amount of DPS... on the spreadsheet going from no weapon enchant to executioner is a gain of 22 DPS for me, which isn't all that bad considering, but if you mess up with swapping weapons and reset a swing timer it might ruin all the benefit.

 

CunningB

Im pretty sure with the Ret paladin i'm currently leveling i've seen JoW proc off SoC extra attacks, it appears as 2 entrys in a row in both the combat log and on SCT with the same timecodes, although I used addon based combat log and SCT so theres a small chance of it being lag.

 

Gormal

Early in P4 all of our tanks seem to lack the rage to really put out a lot of threat, but they're normally just fine. Last time I pulled aggro was right after the first shield and I'd used Bloodlust Brooch and AW and just wasn't watching my threat. Once we leave to kill a couple eggs, its not an issue anymore. My highest sustained dps so far has been 1800 on Teron, so with cooldowns including Shaman bloodlust and the axe, I'd say that its perfectly feasible for me to be bursting well over 2k for that short period of time. I don't run live damage meters so I can't tell for sure, it could just be our tanks slacking but our arms warrior has the same problem.

 

bellator

Hi Guys,

Just a quick note to let you know I have seen a number of questions regarding the spreadsheet etc. I have been and am still away on business this week with extremely limited access to the internet and thus the forums. I promise I have read the posts and will reply when i'm back this weekend and have more time.

 

CunningB

Just did a quick play about to see if I could get a dual JoW proc off a SoC and the gods of chance were favouring me, this is from the normal blizzard combat log so hopefully no issue with addon lag



Not sure how this would affect the mana gain calculations from it though, might be as much as anoth 10% onto of the current listed gain thought

 

flyingtoastr

Thanks Cunning, thats just what I needed.

Assuming 8 PPM for SoC gives you an extra 4 procs of JoW per minute, that's another ~25 Mp5.

Now I just need one of you cute Blood Elf pallys to give me SoB info.

 

• Theras

So, does anybody know of any mobs that are:

1) Immune to Vindication...

2) Will do less damage than a heal every 15 seconds from a Shaman alt, and...

3) Have a very high amount of health, infinite health, or heal themselves?

I went afk punching a Servant in the Blasted Lands last night, and got some odd Judgement of Wisdom results over my two hour log (54% proc rate using only auto attack and one point in Vindication). I'd like to test it on a Vindication immune target to see if that affects the proc rate at all, and I'm also going to go back to the Blasted Lands and get an 8 hour log before posting definitive results.

 

Lars

I'm not sure if they are immune to Vindication or not, but the Halaa guards have an insane amount of health and barely do any damage.

 

Sheltim

Unrelated to the topic at hand, I checked your Armory profile (I put my first points into Ret, ever, last night...) and noticed you have the Libram of Divine Judgement. Were you grinding just before logging out or is there another reason you aren't using SOBlood?

Yes, I've read the thread and know that SOBlood should outdps SOCommand, even with the LODJ, which is why I'm asking.

 

noth

looks like he's in PvP gear... often horde palis use seal of command for PvP because of the higher potential burst.

 

◊ Shalas

The main problem is that swapping weapons resets your swing timer. You're only looking at gains of around 10 DPS (significantly under the 22 dps for full-time Executioner due to that you'd only have Executioner equipped when Mongoose is up), which even ignoring GCD issues would probably be less than the dps you'd lose to swing timer resets.

You'd also probably just want two identical weapons with Mongoose to swap between, as Mongoose from different weapons stacks.

 

Shalymar

DPS Spreadsheet Bug:

The Khorium Champion shows a +hit of 27, it should be +37.

 

Gormal

I spent a few minutes outside of shatt with JoW on some wolves and didn't get a single JoW proc from SoB. I did get procs off JoB, however.

 

grayrest

I decided that this was a good excuse to get my 2h axes up. I was unabled to get a double proc going from pounding on the blasted lands mobs from skill 300 to skill 325. Considering SoB hits on every swing, I find it unlikely that I wouldn't see anything in a couple hundred attacks. For grins (and so I could pay less attention) I switched to SoL with the same results from 325-330. In switching to SoC at 330, I saw two double JoW procs in the first three SoC procs.

Edit: I did notice the IED proc off a vindication (I wear my heal set when doing this), but that's about the only thing of note.

 

• Zurm

Confirmed, SoB does NOT proc JoW.

Proof

I expect the reason is because SoB procs every hit TWICE... once on the mob, once on yourself.

 

flyingtoastr

Heh, so SoC finally has something better than SoB.

Thanks for the help everyone, new version of the JoW list should be up tomorrow.

 

• Zurm

Yea, but SoB costs 210 mana, SoC(6) is 280. Although if you get a SoC proc in one of your two hits till your next judgement I guess that is compensated

 

Laqwanda

I'm leveling my pally right now and I want to be an end game SoR pally. I would wear all cloth with spell hit/crit and larg e amounts of spell dmg raid buffed in the 1300-1500 range. All sockets would be socketed with +8 melle hit. Could i compete end game dps and is this even viable?

 

Redcape

No, but you can do something similar and not be awful. Spell hit and spell crit are worthless to you, ignore them. If you want to use SoR, the best gear is spellpower mixed with physical hit, crit and str. It sounds bizarre, but I had basically the same thing in mind, and until 2.3.2 came out it was actually quite competitive dpswise with a full AP/Crit SoC build. I used s2 arena/honor gear and t4/t5 gear and a mix of physical and spellpower rings/trinkets/cloak/neck. You want to be hit capped and have maximum spellpower for that style but spell hit and spell crit are very weak. Your build would be 10/8/43. It is just worse than a AP/crit build now though because of the change to Crusader Strike. You won't be totally useless or anything, but you won't be particularly good.

Just make sure you use t4/t5/t6 gear and s2 stuff and you will be ok. If you actually use cloth gear mostly you will be terrible, aside from a few pieces like the Collar of Cho'gall since it has only spellpower and doesn't waste points on spellcrit/spellhit.

Edit: Oh, and eye of magtheridon is INSANE for that build. Just saying.

 

andz

Thank you folks for all the valuable information. This post is not ment to be offensive or anything like that, i just honestly believe i could have an idea to improve the thread structure.

In my opinion, this thread is getting confusing. 51 pages (and growing) iss just too much to remember, and to read if you are looking just for a specific information. My suggestion is to split this post furthermore up into Therorycraft(Itemsation), Therorycraft(Spells&Abilities) and a part to discuss freely whatever comes in your mind and does not fit into the above mentioned categories.

Now if anyone feels this post is non-contrbuting to the topic. Yes you are right. However what´s the use in super-informative posts if hardly anyone can find them in time.
If this post is violating any forum rules or you consider it disturbing, feel free to delete it immediatly.

Kind regards,
andz

 

CaptBooyah

Its like a good long novel.. takes time to soak in everything thats happening. Of course it doesn't help when someone posts a question thats been addressed before every 5-6 posts. =]

Majority of the more valuable information is in the opening post... most of the other information present are just little things that one can learn from reading their logs/experimentation.

Perhaps OP should consider a 'quote' section that highlights some of the jewels of advice/findings/FAQs from the now hueg like xbox thread that this little revolution has started.

 

Sheltim

I did my first Karazhan run as Retribution last night. The first thing that struck me was simply how mana starved I was. I had to use Blessing of Wisdom the entire night. On every boss fight I had to switch to JOWisdom and SOWisdom about halfway through, even though I was only using Crusader Strike and JOBlood/SOBlood (I dropped Consecrate from my rotation).

Aside from chain chugging mana potions, which I'd hate to do in a farm Kara run, is there something I'm missing?

 

orkyben

Hey again.

I have a question about the DPS Spreadsheet; relating to "Expertise".

Does the spreadsheet assume you are stood in front, or behind your target?

If it assumes you are in front, then expertise would negate both Parry and Dodge; hence being twice as effective as it would be in reality (taking into account you stand behind targets most of the time).

This leads me to the [Shoulderpads of the Stranger] Vs. [Pauldrons of the Wardancer] debate. :S

Thanks.

 

galzohar

Ret pallies are simply suboptimal in kara. You require the raid buffs for mana, another pally to JoW for you, and windfury totem to do good DPS, and this is not something you usually get in a 10-man.

 

Rheyah

You do not need Windfury to do good DPS. You can do perfectly capable DPS without it, just not compatible with a 25 person environment. You need it there, where the stacking buffs of other classes vastly increase their damage potential and the groups of mobs are larger and tougher.

A Ret paladin is perfectly capable of topping DPS meters without Windfury in a 10 person raid. I've done it myself.