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02/15/08, 2:24 PM
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#2226
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Bald Bull
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Originally Posted by Schadrak
When you do the Analyze Items in Bellator's spreadsheet, does that take into account things like hit rating/precisions/etc? Reason I ask is that after my 2 latest upgrades (neck and weapon), the spreadsheet now lists no upgrades at all for shoulders, and I'm in Justicar. It used to list at least a pair or two (albeit very minor DPS upgrade amounts), or is something else amiss?
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If the spreadsheet is using the new values for the tier sets (I'm not sure if the latest version is, I'm still running with an old version) its possible they are best for the gear you have access to. At the moment I'm positive the recolored T5 Warrior ones are better, as well as Tier 5.
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02/15/08, 2:50 PM
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#2227
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Glass Joe
Human Paladin
Burning Blade
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Im still using the 2.3.2 one (it, not the reitemized pieces). When I say "upgrade" I mean in game I upgraded 2 items, so I changed my gear in the spreadsheet, did the analyze items and the lists was a little different, but I would expect (with everything turned on, hyjal/bt/etc) some shoulders better than Justicar..
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02/15/08, 3:16 PM
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#2228
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Von Kaiser
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I use both bellator and maxdps spreadsheets and the biggest discrepancy I find is how they rank the importance of haste (at least for SoC). For instance, maxdps shows [Berserker's Call] being better than [Dragonspine Trophy] where Bellator has the DST almost double Berserker's (this happens in a few other slots as well). Does anyone know which spreadsheet has the best representation of "upgrades" for each slot?
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02/15/08, 3:19 PM
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#2229
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King Hippo
Jayhanez
Blood Elf Paladin
No WoW Account
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My only quibble about losing hit rating for higher rated DPS items without hit is that it does not account for the increased possibility of having your judgements drop. It may not be a huge deal in all fights, but since a major part of our utility is supposed to be maintaining those judgements, I prefer to eliminate as many avenues to failure of that goal as possible. I've already seen triple CS dodges, making me rabid for expertise, and if I dropped below cap and saw dodge dodge miss I'd probably go cry somewhere. So I'd prefer to sacrifice some personal dps for the knowledge that I will never miss a CS.
Last edited by Rasputin : 02/15/08 at 3:21 PM.
Reason: Spelling correction
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02/15/08, 3:37 PM
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#2230
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Von Kaiser
Blood Elf Paladin
Gul'dan
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I'm on the PTR right now. Refreshing Judgement of the Crusader no longer procs [Libram of Avengement]. Seems like they finally fixed it
Gevlin, are you putting in your raid buffs? DST is a Haste trinket, which means it scales very well with buffs, whereas Berserker's Call is AP - a static bonus that is not effected by buffs.
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02/15/08, 4:10 PM
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#2231
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by Tonyk
Gevlin, are you putting in your raid buffs? DST is a Haste trinket, which means it scales very well with buffs, whereas Berserker's Call is AP - a static bonus that is not effected by buffs.
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well on Bellator's its easy to break down so i have everything on there. on max dps i'm just hand waving putting in buffed AP at 3400, 1100 armor pen (assuming an already reduced 3500 boss armor), hit cap, and 38% or so crit. still shows me berserker's call coming out ahead. strange. maybe i should start rolling on DST huh? especially if they make SoC scale with haste or give us an equivalent to SoB.
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02/15/08, 4:14 PM
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#2232
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King Hippo
Dwarf Paladin
Twilight's Hammer (EU)
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Originally Posted by Gevlin
I use both bellator and maxdps spreadsheets and the biggest discrepancy I find is how they rank the importance of haste (at least for SoC). For instance, maxdps shows [Berserker's Call] being better than [Dragonspine Trophy] where Bellator has the DST almost double Berserker's (this happens in a few other slots as well). Does anyone know which spreadsheet has the best representation of "upgrades" for each slot?
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Mine does :p
Kidding of course. In terms of these two items, i would guess that the discrepency between the two lies not in modelling of haste but more in the modeling of the DST proc. Mine is modelled assuming a 25% uptime, i'm not sure how maxdps does there's, but i would guess they might be modelling a 16.6% uptime
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02/15/08, 4:19 PM
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#2233
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by bellator
Mine does :p
Kidding of course. In terms of these two items, i would guess that the discrepency between the two lies not in modelling of haste but more in the modeling of the DST proc. Mine is modelled assuming a 25% uptime, i'm not sure how maxdps does there's, but i would guess they might be modelling a 16.6% uptime
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ah, that 16.6% vs 25% is probably where that "almost double" comes from. anybody that use DST have concrete numbers on average uptime?
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02/15/08, 8:24 PM
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#2235
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Von Kaiser
Blood Elf Paladin
Gul'dan
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I think your best option would be to use the 16hit rating enchant on your helm, but you're still 2 hit rating short.
Or how about [Madness of the Betrayer]?
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02/15/08, 8:37 PM
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#2236
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King Hippo
Jayhanez
Blood Elf Paladin
No WoW Account
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I included the helm enchant already.
I'm unsure about Madness. The spreadsheet places it decently below both DST, and therefore also the Shard of Contempt. I'd have to imagine that would be a greater dps loss than the ring.
Another possibility would be to socket 1 [Rigid Lionseye] and 2 [Etched Fire Opal] to reach exactly 18 hit.
Last edited by Rasputin : 02/15/08 at 8:43 PM.
Reason: broken itemlink
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02/15/08, 9:42 PM
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#2237
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Glass Joe
Blood Elf Paladin
Ner'zhul
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Armory on PTR
Armory was just upgraded in PTR
Apparently tokens for various tiers of gear (t4,t5) can be exchanged for the equivalent in pvp
Screenshots will be uploaded when properly cropped
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02/15/08, 9:59 PM
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#2238
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Von Kaiser
Blood Elf Paladin
Argent Dawn (EU)
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looking to get hold of the latest spreadsheet. anyone got a link? i tried the one a few pages back but it seems dead
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02/15/08, 10:01 PM
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#2239
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King Hippo
Jayhanez
Blood Elf Paladin
No WoW Account
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Originally Posted by masume
Armory was just upgraded in PTR
Apparently tokens for various tiers of gear (t4,t5) can be exchanged for the equivalent in pvp
Screenshots will be uploaded when properly cropped
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Does this extend to T6/S3?
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02/15/08, 10:16 PM
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#2240
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Bald Bull
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Originally Posted by Rasputin
Does this extend to T6/S3?
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Tier 6 tokens can be turned in for Season 2 right now (might be a bug, I would think they would go into season 3) and the new tokens from SWP (Boots Belt, Bracers) can be turned in for Season 3 honor pieces.
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02/15/08, 11:21 PM
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#2241
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Glass Joe
Blood Elf Paladin
Barthilas
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New comer here...i would like to ask about what is the dps cycle for a ret pally. I know theres a chart at the 1st page, but i have difficulty understanding >.<
Can some one state down what the DPS cycle is like? i.e when to Judge, when to CS so as to avoid getting stuck on GCD...Sorry for asking but im a noob 
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02/16/08, 12:06 AM
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#2242
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Piston Honda
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First page has all the details
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02/16/08, 1:33 AM
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#2243
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Piston Honda
Test
Night Elf Warrior
No WoW Account (EU)
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Am I missing something here. The new Justicar Helm in 2.4 is less dps than the old Justicar Crown according to the dps spreadsheet?
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02/16/08, 1:55 AM
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#2245
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P is for Park
No active account.
Orc Death Knight
No WoW Account
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Since there seems to be an assortment of comments on this thread of what skills armor penetration actually effects:
White damage and what?
SoB to my understanding is considered magic (holy) damage, and the same with crusader strike; they don't scale with plus damage as they're only based off your "tool tip" weapon damage?
Obviously JoB, exorcism and consecration are all spell damage.
Please correct where if I'm mistaken somewhere.
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02/16/08, 2:04 AM
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#2246
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Von Kaiser
Human Death Knight
Stormreaver
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Originally Posted by Zraknul
Since there seems to be an assortment of comments on this thread of what skills armor penetration actually effects:
White damage and what?
SoB to my understanding is considered magic (holy) damage, and the same with crusader strike; they don't scale with plus damage as they're only based off your "tool tip" weapon damage?
Obviously JoB, exorcism and consecration are all spell damage.
Please correct where if I'm mistaken somewhere.
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Crusader strike is physical damage. Armor pen works on our white damage and CS, which is the majority of our damage.
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02/16/08, 2:29 AM
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#2247
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King Hippo
Jayhanez
Blood Elf Paladin
No WoW Account
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Originally Posted by Tonyk
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Yeah, I only meant it was a greater DPS loss than using the [Band of the Ranger-General]. I think at this point, with new gear being discovered frequently, I'll shelve this discussion until the PTR seems a bit more finalized.
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02/16/08, 3:04 AM
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#2248
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King Hippo
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Originally Posted by Rasputin
So, looking over the available loot known from Sunwell, I've been trying to figure out the best way to get to 95 hit rating. So far I have, from gear;
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Considered Surefooted enchant on your boots instead of 12 agi?
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The universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements. Energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest.
www.retpaladin.com
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02/16/08, 3:05 AM
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#2249
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Bald Bull
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So our choices for new 2 handed weapons for SWP...
A 3.5 speed Axe itemized for hunters, and a 3.5 speed sword itemized for Hunters. Anyone else a little disturbed by this? Where is the big slow mace?
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02/16/08, 3:10 AM
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#2250
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King Hippo
Jayhanez
Blood Elf Paladin
No WoW Account
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Originally Posted by flyingtoastr
So our choices for new 2 handed weapons for SWP...
A 3.5 speed Axe itemized for hunters, and a 3.5 speed sword itemized for Hunters. Anyone else a little disturbed by this? Where is the big slow mace?
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While this isn't quite the issue for me personally, I agree that it is a problem. But just to make sure, is Apolyon at least an upgrade to Torch for Alliance?
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