Retribution DPS Theorycraft - Page 91

Habaka · 01/07/08, 4:11 AM

Originally Posted by Anarkii

Can anyone explain this :

That's the first time I've seen SoB partially resisted. I got multiple partial resists on that kill.

Oh, and

on that same kill.

That sure sounds odd :o

Was thinking if it could be something with the encounter, but I'v done RoS quite many times myself and dont remember ever getting partial resists... Maybe I should check some of our old WWS files if they are still hosted

( Oh and welcome back Bellator, sure have missed you and your spreadsheet <3 )

Edit: Just went through the WWS reports and didint encounter any resists or partial resists on RoS encounter, though the reports are old, since our WWS guy stopped logging a while back, so I dunno, new mechanic? :P

Valerys · 01/07/08, 4:12 AM

Originally Posted by bellator

To make the SoB section of the spreadsheet as accurate as possible. Need confirmation on the following questions:-

1) Does SoB proc off Crusader Strike?
2) Does SoB proc off a windfury hit?
3) Can SoB be Fully Resisted?
4) Can SoB be Partially Resisted?
5) Can SoB be missed/dodge/parried/blocked?
6) Does SoB use Melee Crit?
7) Can JoB be Fully Resisted?
8) Can JoB be Partially Resisted?
9) Can JoB be missed/dodge/parried/blocked?
10) Does Job Use Melee Crit?

I also need to know:-

11) What are the spell damage coefficnets for the different ranks of consecration. I know Rank 1 is 46% and Rank 6 is 95%. Dont know the rest.

Cheers

1) No
2) Yes
3) No
4) No
5) Yes
6) Yes
7), 8), 9), 10) I believe JoB uses melee hit and crit, but works like a spell otherwise, i.e. it can be fully or partially resisted.

11) According to WoWWiki:
Calculation:
sLvl = Level that the rank of this spell can first be learned
cLvl = Caster's Current Level
Downranking Multiplier = Min(1, (sLvL + 11) / cLvl)

So for ranks 5 and 6 the coef is the normal 95%, rank 4 is 0.83%, rank 3 is 0.69%, and rank 2 is 0.56%.

bellator · 01/07/08, 4:55 AM

Man, it's good to be back and see the community in full flow as usual

Avitus,

Regarding the weird behavoiur of JotC. I mentioned it briefly in my PM, but for the community I briefly mentioned the weird behaviour, though in far less detail a while ago.

The weird thing was that whilst the bonus damage from JotC was not getting any % modifier effects when used with Consecration, it was getting % modifiers applied to it for SoR. Some further investigation is definately needed here.

However for the time being, since SoR got the bonus damage, my model will assume that this applies to SoC. This is however an important issue as as you mentioned it is a loss of 89.5 spelldamage.

Rasputin, Anarkii, Habaka, Valeys

Thanks for the information on SoB/JoB

JoB seems to have bought about some differing opinion. I find it hard to imagine any damagin ability that doesnt suffer from either a resistance effect or a melee miss etc effect. For the time being i will treat it as resistable / partially resistable (as my general rule of thumb is its better to slightly underestimate the dps than overestimate it)

Again, with SoB, whilst the consensus seems that it can be missed dodged, parried but not partially resisted, the one example of the partial resist by Anarkii does bring doubt on this. For the time being i will make it partially resistable but not resistable.

I do ask, when you are raiding etc keep an eye on your combat log. And any screenshots, logs of these abilities you can get showining "S/JoB has been parried/blocked/resisted" etc etc would be great so we can get some conclusive evidence to on which to model.

Thanks though to all you (evil scum of the earth horde) paladins. Will do my upmost to get the latest version of the spreadsheet with SoB out today, with lots of extra goodies that have been suggested in my pms via Avitus and others.

Have a good day.

Anarkii · 01/07/08, 5:16 AM

Just to make sure I wasn't the only one seeing a partial resist on SoB, I just went through logs of SoB use on Reliquary of Souls. Grant from Blood Legion was the first name that came to my mind, so this is a random pick :

Grant's Seal of Blood crits Essence of Anger for 2210 Holy damage (1021 resisted)

Grant - WWS

I then went and checked my logs for other encounters. There were other encounters where it definitely has partial resists, so it's not limited to RoS.

Is it something to do with hit rating? My current values are 93 hit rating + precision. That's 2 hit rating below the cap. (I can get capped, but this was the best balance I found).

bellator · 01/07/08, 6:13 AM

Originally Posted by Valerys

11) According to WoWWiki:
Calculation:
sLvl = Level that the rank of this spell can first be learned
cLvl = Caster's Current Level
Downranking Multiplier = Min(1, (sLvL + 11) / cLvl)

So for ranks 5 and 6 the coef is the normal 95%, rank 4 is 0.83%, rank 3 is 0.69%, and rank 2 is 0.56%.

Valerys,

Avitus did some testing on live which he pmed me. He found the coef to be:-

Consecration:

Rank 6: 64, 90 - 94%
Rank 5: 48, 74 - 94%
Rank 4: 35, 61 - 94%
Rank 3: 24, 45 - 76%
Rank 2: 15, 32 - 61%
Rank 1: 8, 21 - 47%

Thus i am a little uncertain of the wowwiki formula as it doesnt match.

I do however also need coefficients for the Ranks of Exorcism. For the time being i will use this formula as a close approximation, but if anyone happens to know / has time to test them out, please let me know.

bellator · 01/07/08, 7:11 AM

Hey Guys,

Just to let you know I have uploaded the latest version of the paladin DPS model at it's new home at filefront. It can be found:-

[Replaced with version 28. See post 1363]

There are a number of big and small changes:-

Big Changes

1) SoB is now fully catered for. At the top of the character screen is a drop down box which you can select SoB/SoC from. Selecting SoB will change the skills in the skill overview section. The Graph at the bottom of the page and the "Strength Equivalency Points" calculation will both be based on SoB, and the item analysis page will run using SoB. (NOTE: If you run an item analysis with SoC, then switch to SoB you have to re-run the item analysis. It does not automatically get updated.

As a couple of examples to see the differences., take a look at the graph output. You will notice that Haste is far more valuabel when run with SoB as opposed to SoC. Also on the item analysis, you will see that when run with SoB that Cataclysm's edge beats Torch of the Damned

2) The way Consecration & Exorcism is modelled has changed. Previously they were tacked on as an extra being utilised by the 'spare mana' to give an extra dps boost. Now they have been integrated into the "Dps and Skill Overview" and their usage directly effects the "Time to OOM calculation".

If you look towards the bottom of the sheet you can see a section "Consecration / Exorcism Usage". Here you can change the Rank of the spells used (or turn it off). The dps time till OOM by default assume they are cast on cooldown, however there is also the option to override the cooldown and enter your own CD for these abilities.

As a result you can now play around with the different levels of the spells on a CD of your choosing and see how it effects your dps and time till OOM and adjust them to best bit your gear playstyle.

Small Changes

Added Furious Gizmatic Goggles
Added Mana Spring Totem and Mana Tide Totem
Added Dark / Demonic Rune
Added Drums of War & Drums of Battle
Added the Draenei trails Heroic Prescence and Inspirin Presence.

Anyway, enjoy the new model, and please tell me if there are bugs / errors that occur as there has been a lot of changes and little time to fully test everything.

Shalymar · 01/07/08, 10:13 AM

Paladin DPS Model v27

I downloaded the new Paldin dps sheet this morning. When I run the Individual Item Upgrade Analysis, the application stops working when it reaches the first trinket. Is anyone else seeing this error?

bellator · 01/07/08, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by Shalymar

Paladin DPS Model v27

I downloaded the new Paldin dps sheet this morning. When I run the Individual Item Upgrade Analysis, the application stops working when it reaches the first trinket. Is anyone else seeing this error?

Shalymar, is the dropdown box set to "All" when you ran it. As not been able to replicate this bug

Kris · 01/07/08, 10:47 AM

One more bug: When I set Exorcism usage to OFF, it doesn't calc dps for consecration too.

Saltycracker · 01/07/08, 10:50 AM

Re: Belators New Sheet

Tytyty for putting out a new version! A couple changes I made which I made that some people may be interested in:

Added Shapeshifter's Signet: If you have way too much hit this ring is a cheap way to get some expertise
Added Sundered Chrysoprase: I have one in my Twinblade and its a good gem if you are already using a Shifting Tanzanite in some of your gear

Cheers!

• Zurm · 01/07/08, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by Valerys

1) No
2) Yes
3) No
4) No
5) Yes
6) Yes
7), 8), 9), 10) I believe JoB uses melee hit and crit, but works like a spell otherwise, i.e. it can be fully or partially resisted.

4 is wrong, Sob can be partially resisted.

7) yes
8) yes
9) no
10) yes

Rasputin · 01/07/08, 10:58 AM

If this is any help, here is my Recount of the night for SoB and JoB:

SoB:

JoB:

Additionally, here is our WWS of that night(please don't mind the terrible performance). I'm not overly familiar with WWS, but the dropdown menu does seem to show partial resists. So, for better than I:

Jayhanez WWS

Edit: As WWS treats SoB backlash identically with a hit, could backlashes on me which were partially absorbed by a PW:S or some other effect be skewing these results? In any case I'll try to watch my results and combat log more carefully next week.

bellator · 01/07/08, 11:48 AM

Hey guys, yet another updated model V28 with more big changes.

Paladin_Dps_v28_2.3.2.xls - FileFront.com

Changes from v 28:-

1) The main change is that there has been quite a bit of restructuring.

a) The Graph Section is now on a seperate tab called "Graph". There is a button to clear the graph
b) The playstyle / mana section which was in effect just a combination of different talents, pots etc has been removed. Ther various bits that made up this section have been moved into their relative postions. For example, benedition and sanctified crusader can be found under talents, mana pots can be dound under pots etc.
c) The top top the page (highlighted yellow) contains all the output. It has the dps section per skill, a mana overview section, a "Strength Equivalency Point" section and then the load/save feature.
d) Under the "Gear" section is a section called "Skill Overview" which was originally in the "playstyle/mana" section. This controls the abilities and how you use them
e) The talents/buffs/pots section has been split into 3 sections, one for each.

Whilst this may confuse you at first if you are used to the old layout, bear with it, as things are now more logically placed rather than scattershotted all over the place.

2) Shapeshifter's Signet has been added
3) Sundered Chryosphere has been added
4) The Exorcism bug has been fixed. It now no longer turns off consecration also
5) The "Item Calc" section is less prone to bugging. If you stilll mange to get it to bug, let me know

Any feedback on the new layout etc much appreciated.
Plus if anyone can tell me how to copy over an old file on Filefront so that I can keep the link the same would be appreciated

Shalymar · 01/07/08, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by bellator

Hey guys, yet another updated model V28 with more big changes.

Paladin_Dps_v28_2.3.2.xls - FileFront.com

Changes from v 28:-

1) The main change is that there has been quite a bit of restructuring.

a) The Graph Section is now on a seperate tab called "Graph". There is a button to clear the graph
b) The playstyle / mana section which was in effect just a combination of different talents, pots etc has been removed. Ther various bits that made up this section have been moved into their relative postions. For example, benedition and sanctified crusader can be found under talents, mana pots can be dound under pots etc.
c) The top top the page (highlighted yellow) contains all the output. It has the dps section per skill, a mana overview section, a "Strength Equivalency Point" section and then the load/save feature.
d) Under the "Gear" section is a section called "Skill Overview" which was originally in the "playstyle/mana" section. This controls the abilities and how you use them
e) The talents/buffs/pots section has been split into 3 sections, one for each.

Whilst this may confuse you at first if you are used to the old layout, bear with it, as things are now more logically placed rather than scattershotted all over the place.

2) Shapeshifter's Signet has been added
3) Sundered Chryosphere has been added
4) The Exorcism bug has been fixed. It now no longer turns off consecration also
5) The "Item Calc" section is less prone to bugging. If you stilll mange to get it to bug, let me know

Any feedback on the new layout etc much appreciated.
Plus if anyone can tell me how to copy over an old file on Filefront so that I can keep the link the same would be appreciated

This latest version of the dps sheet fixed the problem I was having. Yes, I had the dropdown box set to "All" when I ran it.

Agonar · 01/07/08, 12:13 PM

Say Bellator, does your Spreadsheet work with OpenOffice? If not, are you planning to create one compatible with O.Office in the futur?

Thanks!