• Anarkii

Blade of Harbingers is better than Torch/Cataclysm for Blood Elves, which is...interesting.

 

Deimosfobos

Sure it is an upgrade, but by "brute force" alone, the item level is so high, that even with crapy stat choice is the best weapon in the game for alliance pallys too... the diference is that is a LOT better for BE pallys.

Hope devs fix this Horde>>>>Alliance problem regarding ret pallys.

 

• Theras

Just to make things a little more crystal clear, Apolyon is roughly a 25 DPS upgrade over a [Torch of the Damned] with Seal of Command, and a 53 DPS upgrade with Seal of Blood.

 

Deimosfobos

Exactly... thats a HUGE diference. And we are taking just about a weapon...

 

bellator

For those wnting to see the effects of changin the way SoC works of hasted hit, go into the "DPS Calc" Tab and change formula in C17 to read:-

=7/(60/C4)

 

Deimosfobos

Your DPS Spreadsheet is great, and very helpfull. I used to do the math manually, it saves a lot of time.

1 thing you could fix, when adding a new item, once you select a gem, you can't delete it, you get only 3 options (R, Y, B), none for deleting the gem from the item. Not a big thing, but a little annoying.

 

bellator

Click on the cell with the gem in and press delete. Will remove it. Will add a clear in a later feature

 

• frmorrison

For Alliance Pallies that lament that Red Belt of Battle is best in-slot, in 2.4 you can buy Vortex with badges and gold.


That new Axe is really good for BEs (2nd best in-game).

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Shalymar

I plugged that new axe [The Blade of Harbingers], I am assuming from Badge of Justice, into the spreadsheet, it seems like the best weapon for a Ret Blood Elf paladin in the game.

 

• frmorrison

Don't forget the 156 dps weapon called Apolyon . Although many will not see for a while, it is in-game.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Shalymar

Yeah, I don't foresee many Ret Paladins getting that sword anytime soon, however, if this Axe can be obtained via Badges, even if it is 200+ I see many Paladins running around with it even though it seems more like a Hunter's axe then a Ret Paladin weapon. You are correct though, that sword is very nice also.

 

orkyben

I must say, I would be horribly surprised if this "BT quality badge loot" is actually a reference to [Badge of Justice].

I think it will be most probably some sort of "Sunwell" related badge, I hardly see how putting 134 DPS weapons in the game that you can earn by doing Heroic Slave Pens every day would benefit in the game in the slightest.

 

flyingtoastr

Sunwell bosses drop good old [Badge of Justice]s. So yes, you can now get ilevel 141s for running heroic mech 50 times in a row.

Its all just prepping for the gear reset when WotLK hits. Its a lot like how easy they made high level PvP gear to get in patches 1.12 and 2.0.

 

• frmorrison

While this matter is outside the realm of this thread, the expansion will have a gear reset, so allowing people some fine leveling gear seems like a good idea, especially with upcoming MMOs that may be competitive with WoW.


Another thing it will take servers 1-2 months before they get to the badges vendor, and note this content is subject to change, it isn't live just yet.


Also, some class changes may happen in the future to make melee haste good for Alliance too, so they can have the 2nd best weapon in the game from badges as well.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

• Avitus

Ah damn, I had stopped reading in disgust at the massive added imbalance the new gear is introducing (Haste gear taking the whole "SoB vs SoC" issue to a whole new level of imbalanced unfairness), but I didn't expect 10 new pages so fast!

People sure have been busy, anyway skimming through the Jerry Springer-style drama with that rogue and what not, some comments that have accumulated:


Not really a ret issue, but you can solo tank all abominations with prot spec and good enough gear. At ~24k hp buffed and good healers it's a non issue.

Ret spec in prot gear you have to hold back a bit with the AoE tanking however.


Emphasis mine.

Your post just further proves my point. It took "community feedback" to get the threat reduction change implemented, without it they "might" have not added it.

Which is why I believe we're in a similar situation atm with the horde vs alliance/SoB vs SoC haste gear imbalance. And as much as I dread to be promoting such a thing, I think blizz forum whining might actually be required to make a change.

-SoB/SoV have to be given to the other factions

or

-SoC mechanics have to be changed to benefit more from the new haste itemization and be a true upgrade over SoB (as it should be, since it's a non-trainer seal).




While this is true in most cases, I believe (at least until 2.4 hits) with the added spelldamage in T6 gear, if you can maintain a max rank consecration/exorcism rotation on Teron (and yes you can), this evens or even turns the favor the other side

I can personally confirm 1950 DPS on a Teron Fight (making video when I manage to get 2k) in a group with enhance shammy + MS warrior + 2 rogues.



As a matter of fact, in our timed runs I usually end up between 1-2 on the overall DPS for the run. Just make very good use of Consecration on the multitude of trash pulls that come with tons of adds and spam pots throughout.

Make sure the holy paladin places JoW on the bosses.


Might I offer some [Spicy Hot Talbuk] instead of Str food? It would land you exactly at the cap

Until capped, Hit is the most valuable stat there is, so going 20 Hit over 20 Str is definitely a good trade off.




The link never changes: jwhalley Profile, jwhalley Details - FileFront.com

Also on the first page.



It's an upgrade, but not an optimal one. As someone perfectly put it: An upgrade by "brute force itemvalue".

On the other hand, I have to wonder:

The actual stats are 416-625 frontload (average 520) @ 3.5 speed = 148.7 DPS.

If it was bumped to 3.8 speed, we'd be looking at an average frontload of 564, max ~670. Is it possible they're avoiding this due to PvP imbalance?

Considering the highest current max frontload weapon (Torch) is just 5 damage shy of 600 max frontload, having the next upgrade be close to 700 max frontload would be pretty extreme.

Just some theorizing, nothing conclusive, but one has to wonder if that's the reason

 

• Avitus

The burning question atm most of us should have is:

Can we confirm that SoC proc chance is based off the hasted speed and therefore does not gain a ppm increase through the mass of Haste itemization in 2.4?

Theras, I think you were working on some extensive testing on PTR to confirm my rough results, how's that going?


I believe this is the missing detail needed to start a lynch fest/crusade on the official Blizzard forums about the SoB vs SoC unfairness.


Currently, there's roughly a ~150 DPS difference in Sunwell level gear (which has a lot of haste itemized).

According to spreadsheet adjustments, if SoC would go off the BASE speed, the difference would shrink to 100 DPS, still too large and worth complaint, but I'd like to know where we're at first.


They've really dug a hole for themselves with this SoB/SoV "faction only" business, similar to how fear ward was pre-TBC, I really can't see any workable outcome besides giving alliance SoB or completely changing/upgrading SoC to be superior to both.

 

• Theras

When character copy stops taking a dump I'll start testing.

 

Rasputin

If you need any help, I have access to several pieces of haste gear and can easily afk smacking a blasted lands servant judged with light(assuming this is still the way one gathers several hours of testing).

 

• Avitus

Both JoW and JoL are not ppm (they are flat 50% proc chances).


Unfortunately the only "legal" way to test it would actually require manually refreshing SoC every 30 secs for a very long time :/

A 3rd party keyboard/mouse macro could be used (to automatically press your SoC keyboard button every 29 secs), but I think that would go against the ToS, despite not being used for any "illegal" purposes, though I wonder if such regulations strictly apply and are monitored on the PTR.

 

Rasputin

Yeah, I just meant JoL to keep me alive indefinitely, I use that to level my weapon skill. As for SoC, I could easily tap that for a few hours while I troll various forums. Depending on my bravery I could even G15 it while watching the screen, but I tend to be a law-abiding type of guy so I would most likely load up my second comp and go to town for a few hours while I watch TV or browse the internet. The offer still stands if Theras wants a second data set.

 

• Avitus

Just go for it, if you need help parsing it, just PM me.

All we'll need is:

Number of swings, time, parries, dodges, number of procs, amount of haste, base weapon speed, SoC uptime (should be 100%), avoid mongoose or procs that cause haste

I'd do it if I had the time, but don't have access to wow here ;/

 

Rasputin

I'm not big on statistics. Any idea on how many swings I'd need to generate something approaching a reasonable sample? Should I get as much haste as possible equipped in order to show any potential differences more sharply?

Also, does it have to be on the PTR? I've actually picked up a few more haste pieces on live since I transferred. If PTR that should still be fine, just wondering.

I'd planned to simply generate a WWS of the test, but I can certainly send the combatlog to someone for parsing using some other program if that would be useful.

 

• Avitus

WWS is perfect. Live server is equally ok.

Max haste gear would be best.

 

• Zurm

Well of course I've been using hit food! That being said, I would rather not have to rely on it, since the possibility of dying and getting combat ressed is always around, and once you die during a fight, you can't get your food buff back. In addition, we recently got a feral druid who has decided to go Moonkin...while he isn't around all the time, the extra 3% hit makes me lazy sometimes.

 

Rasputin

Here's the first chunk of testing. It's not as much as I wanted to but I had to run out in the middle of my expected block of time. I'll try to grab some more haste gear as I can and hopefully do some more testing later when I can get a larger chunk of time in and more haste available.

Haste gear was:
[Jin'rohk, The Great Apocalypse]
[Girdle of the Lightbearer]
[Band of Devastation]

Base weapon speed of 3.7, haste rating of 108 for 6.85% haste, hasted weapon speed of 3.46.

Jayhanez - WWS

edit: I realize this amount of testing isn't of great use, I just didn't want you guys to think I'd forgotten or abandoned the project. I'll definitely try to pick up at least another [Band of Devastation] and a pair of [Pillager's Gauntlets] when they drop and re-do this testing with a more significant number of trials.