Side note - Anyone know if the "immune" procc from vindication still procs wisdom in 2.4 ?

Unless I missed it, there wasn't conclusive evidence that Vindication currently procs JoW on immune targets, just that it felt like it did. Theras was going to test it but wasn't able to find a suitable target for testing last I heard.

As for avengement, I did multiple runs with different guild groups when BF was the daily. Got it on the 6th run and third day of trying.

The one "test" we had for it involved a WWS where there were far more JoW procs than we had though possible at the time. We now know that SoC does proc JoW, so it is entirely possible that this was the reason for the discrepancies and not Vindication.

That being said, the PTR is the perfect place to test this. Respecs without consequence will allow someone to easily spec for Vindication and test it against a real boss level mob (kara anyone?).

I don't think further testing is really necessary, as I am pretty convinced that Vindication is triggering Judgement of Wisdom. Otherwise I'm at a loss as to how I am consistently getting what appears to be a 75-80% JoW proc rate every week on Teron Gorefiend. I even assumed that every single offensive action I take could trigger Judgement of Wisdom when I state that figure (initial Consecration casts, SoC procs, Exorcisms, Judgements, Crusader Strikes, etc.).

how large of a sample set would i need for a JoW test?

What are we testing for? The JoW proc rate or wheter or not vindication can proc JoW? I've gone 1000 swings in 2 sessions and both proved to be a ~50% proc, (It was a while ago, I know one was slightly over and one was slightly under). What's really interesting is that a JoW proc can for some reason proc Darkmoon Card: Vengeance. I swung 1000 times, ~500 JoW procs, and ~50 DMC:V procs.

I can't wait to get the new Stam/dodge on proc trinket, DMC:V can be a pain, especially when it procs on pulling Archimonde.

I don't think it would take much testing. If you judge wisdom and auto-attack with no seal active and you see 2x +74 mana that's a pretty clear indication that vindication procced JoW.

That only shows that a successful Vindication can proc JoW, you'l have to find a mob immune to it to test if JoW procs from the immune messages, i.e. a boss.

I've been trying to test this in Sunwell, however I've had to spec holy due to the obnoxious number of healers kalecgos requires. If I can manage to bring the ret copy of my character to Sunwell, I'll let you guys know!

Does anyone have a Pawn Scale for Retribution?

Hey,

SoBlood was the Seal they got by enslaving a Naaru, right? The Naaru is no longer enslaved on PTR.

M'uru is Missing: What it may mean for the future of Warcraft lore - WOW Insider

After reading this.. The path is open for SoB for Alliance. Hope Blizz will walk it with us.

I had the same dilemna. Bellator's spreadsheet showed a somewhat higher DPS gain for me to pick up the helm first, but on the other hand picking up the S3 gauntlets now will make your arena matches to get the helm that much better.

I bought the gauntlets.

I would get the S3 Gloves. I think they are the best gloves we can get in the game.

I'll be combat logging tonight again on PTR if someone want to take a look at the logfile and parse it. I would say; however, that JoW procs are insanely high for only WF, Autoswing, CS, Judgements, Exorcism--so I can only make the assumption that vindication does trigger JoW procs.

Tier 6 pieces had big changes, tons of expertise for everyone.

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...ghtbringer.jpg

Looks even better, Weapon expertise is so hard to get atm.

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...ghtbringer.jpg

The new 3 pieces of Tier 6 have been reitemized with this latest push. All the stamina was removed from the pieces. The haste is still there, along with some crit and bunches of strength. One of the most exiting things though is the inclusion of Expertise on the three pieces (78 expertise rating total). I must admit that it is pretty incredible, as it is possible to be expertise capped (as a human) wearing those three pieces of gear and using a Sword or Mace.

Still stuck with the terrible set bonus though.

Well, they removed stamina from our new T6...and gave us expertise instead! While I'm not a fan of losing stamina, I think we got a decent stat trade and a small part of the stam loss can be made up with the other 2.4 items.

Edit: Ugh, too slow. I believe you need 90 expertise rating to negate 5.6% dodge.

The item designers basically made all the new T6 items best in slot for every class. If you're a Human with Sword/Mace, you're going to be sitting at -6.2% Dodged. Even without the expertise, the items are still best in slot.

Expertise cap is 89.7 according to WoWwiki. Yeah, 90.

These new items are incredible, but I'm worried that the complete lack of stamina will make them less useful on fights with AoE damage (every fight). I wouldn't mind dumping a few crit and haste and expertise for a little bit of stamina (not enough to break PvP though, which is why the stamina was removed).

Just did some rough calculations.

3.9 expertise rating = 1 expertise, and with a 5.6% dodge rate that means you need 22.4 total expertise (so likely 23).

23 x 3.9 = 89.7 so yes, it looks like 90 expertise rating is going to be your new fun number for 2.4, unless you are Human using a mace/sword in which case you will only need 71 (90 - (5 x 3.9)).

Just ran these staminaless pieces through the model, and the numbers they are producing compared to anything else in these slots now is incredible

I'm having a bit of trouble nailing down the dodge rate on a boss. Some places say 5.6%, others (notably this thread on EJ) say 6.5%.