And it was posted by a player, who just was stating plainly that Alliance will get SoV because, hey, it makes sense. Which, while nice, is not at all a confirmation that any action will actually be taken.
It would have "made sense" for blizzard to distribute fear ward between factions at the release of TBC, but they didn't do it. There's a lot of changes that just "make sense" that haven't been implemented for various reasons. While 2.4 opens up lore excuses to give both factions the other's faction-based seal, that doesn't necessarily mean it will happen.
WoWInsider is a Blog, they give their opinions and open discussions on particular subject, nothing more nothing less.
Beside this, i hope you guys get SoB. Or that both Horde and Alliance get a new shared cross-faction seal that is tailored around AP and is affected by haste just like SoB.
The sheer amount of misinformation in that thread makes me cringe. People saying that haste is terrible for alliance for starters (it is still a DPS increase stat, just not as much as for BE), saying that Seal of Command doesn't scale with attack power (read the tooltip, 70% of weapon damage), etcetera. Combined with the number of Horde Paladins who don't want alliance to have SoB because of various reasons (ranging from "lore" to "horde > alliance deal with it") and the number of alliance fanboys who think SoC is fine ("if you just use spell damage gear seal of command is perfect!") and I can understand why the devs hate our class forum so much.
One day someone needs to make a Retribution Bible and get it stickied up there.
Just grab the First 500, or The most relevant posts here, and transfer them. at 500 replies it gets locked and no one can spoil it.
or just have a sticky pointing to EJ or Cromfel's forums. While this may bring the dunderheads these forums are better regulated than the official ones.
Back on topic, the latest build reitemized the new T6 pieces again.
Only 60 passive Expertise now (though that is still huge), which means if you're going by the Expertise cap proposed in the Rogue thread the [Shard of Contempt] fits almost perfectly for non-humans.
Still haven't fixed that damn bonus though. I'll have to bump up my thread on the WoW boards.
and the number of alliance fanboys who think SoC is fine ("if you just use spell damage gear seal of command is perfect!")
Tell me about it. On the french boards, we got a "ret"pal saying that "Ret is just fine, my raid's doing curator, and we down it before the 3rd enrage" (maybe it was the 4th?). And whenever there is AoE I go 1st thanks to my flask of Blinding Light".
... Anyway, not to look completly off topic, some MT's NPCs got a Seal of Wrath spell. "Adds holy dmg to any spell or attack" something like that. Of course it's an npc ability and so on, but considering how the devs are improving our whole class atm (yeah. Yeah, I mean that), I would tend to believe there'll be something for you in 2.4. I mean, with such a bunch of haste on the new t6, it would be a shame if they don't do anything about it.
Edit: Thanks for the new screens. It almost hurts to see stamina's back :'( My precious stats...
Still haven't fixed that damn bonus though. I'll have to bump up my thread on the WoW boards.
I assume you mean the set bonus. Consider it a blessing in disguise. It means we don't need to be tied down to one of the inferior Black Temple T6 pieces once we're at the end of Sunwell, and can just wear the badass Warrior plate.
Edit: It's also looking like the [Shard of Contempt] is going to be roughly equal to a DST for Human Paladins - maybe slightly worse - if you assume a 45s internal cooldown plus five seconds.
It's not really being tied down, unless they release items that trump the new pieces of T6. Those 3 and an odd extra piece of T6 is going to get other classes their 4P, and it's not really gimping them (imagine losing a few SpellDam/sCrit for +5% Fireball damage - it's a pretty good trade-off).
I heard Sigurd scored an infinity on Rock Band and ascended to heaven.
I would really like to see the 4-piece T6 bonus and the S3 glove bonus switch. I really don't want to be stuck wearing arena gear for just the bonus, especially with the new Blacksmithing gloves available, and I wouldn't mind having to simply hang on to my T6 shoulders for a while (just because they look that cool).
I would really like to see the 4-piece T6 bonus and the S3 glove bonus switch. I really don't want to be stuck wearing arena gear for just the bonus, especially with the new Blacksmithing gloves available, and I wouldn't mind having to simply hang on to my T6 shoulders for a while (just because they look that cool).
Pretty big nerf for any of us not yet at T6 level. =(
Pretty big nerf for any of us not yet at T6 level. =(
Notice your own wording: not yet When you get some T6 you'll be at least as disgruntled as those of us who look at the set bonus every day thinking "what's the point".
Don't touch S3 gloves (though 10% on hammer of wrath would help against every target that's ever escaped at 1-3% after you threw HoW at him in pvp... so it would make sense), but do something to T6x 4 set or it's a joke.
You gotta remember, for most classes the 4 set T6 bonus is just godlike.
Locks get 6% on their shadowbolts, that's 6% total damage for a shadowbolt spamming imp sac build and trust me around the bend all of our locks got T6 I did notice a huge change on damage meters.
For our set bonus to not just be bad, but simply "non existent" is ridiculous when you compare.
Found this today and figured it was worth linking... I can't verify because I couldn't find the blue post in the thread they linked. Anyway, looks like alliance pallies get what they want, now i want the human racial in return :P
Seal of Blood and Seal of Vengeance are faction seals, not racials, if they were racials, only one Alliance race would get them. However, since Draenai, Dwarves and Humans can use Seal of Vengeance, it can't possibly be a racial ability, can it?
Alliance getting SoB and Horde getting SoV (even if it's kind of weak) is faction balancing, and has nothing to do with racials.
I understand it's not that long, since I went afk for some 4 hours and found myself dead when I came back :<
I did have JoL on when I left, so I dont really know what happened, but my combat log did show SoC's till I died, so I really dont know if it's worth anything, but there it is regardless... I had the following haste items on:
On a 3.8 speed weapon you would expect a 44.3% proc rate on Seal of Command.
On a 3.38 speed weapon you would expect a 39.4% proc rate on Seal of Command.
If I've done it correctly, you observed a 36.26% proc rate - if SoC scaled with haste you would have obtained 44.3%, if it didnt scale with haste you should have observed a 39.4% rate.
That said you need many more swings to prove anything! =D
I think the general conclusion is the SoC doesn't currently scale with Haste.
First thing, check the data, second thing, read up on statistics and binomial distributions. If it wasn't for the data being borked that test would show 5 STDs awayfrom the value expected if haste did not effect SoC proc chance per swing, which would have proven statistical significance.
With all due respect Nex, unless you have something to offer other than rude comments please stay out of the topic. WoW forums are -------> that way.
Other than the change to [Hammer of the Naaru] (and it still pretty much sucks) there were no more reitemization changes in the latest push, including the two spell damage socket bonuses. Everyone who can needs to put in feedback reports on this so that we can actually get some decent bonuses. Hey, if our 4-piece does get fixed wouldn't it be nice to use a blue gem in the blue socket on the chest for our metas?
Hey there Nex, welcome to the forum. I don't know why you're so valiant at defending SoC, but just as there is no 100% conclusive results to confirm that SoC does not gain from haste, there's none that confirm otherwise.
A crushing majority of admittedly non conclusive (small data sets) tests however point towards SoC not gaining from haste (going off the hasted speed and therefore gaining no ppm increase).
A. Sadly, I've used procwatch intensively way back (before WWS) and I'm very sure it can be misused to offer false results. Remember procwatch doesn't list how many times you parried, if he even had SoC up all the time etc. Procwatch is flawed unless the test variables are controlled very carefully
B. Sample size. 1785 hits is way too little to narrow it down. Just because it somehow fits with his theory, does not by far mean it's actually conclusive with that amount of hits.
Moreover, on the last page of the very same thread you linked, someone posts a significantly more extensive test with 5237 hits and later 7709 hits over many hours, that both confirm SoC goes off the hasted speed (does not gain from haste). It even has WWS logs.
The only reason I don't take this test as a 100% conclusive result on the issue is because the WWS logs have unfortunately expired and I have to take his word that those were his results. Do the math on his results however, they both show a ~7ppm (or very slightly less).
Anyway, all that aside, even IF we assumed haste improved SoC and increased its ppm, it will STILL be roughly 100 DPS (according to the very fine spreadsheet) behind SoB when wearing the current best in best gear from Sunwell (which is the ultimate goal for every PvE ret paladin, yet unfortunately for alliance paladins heavily loaded with haste).
So it's a moot point really if "SoC gains from haste!" is to be used as an argument to not share the faction-only seals. It remains inferior by a large margin with the latest itemization even if one should assume it gained from haste for the sake of the argument.
This point especially reduces the whole discussion to a mere theoretical exercise, since its outcome has no real influence on the discussion ("Share Seals? Yay or nay."). The situation we're in won't change: Alliance ret paladins need SoB in order to be competitive to horde paladins in PvE, regardless if SoC scaled gains from haste or not.
Finally, it really doesn't affect horde paladins in any kind of way, I know I wouldn't be fussed if I rolled a belf if I had access to both seals, so why so fixed on proving it scales with haste?
Hey all, i've posted on the US paladin boards with a quick little proposition to realign our T6 set bonus. I realise its a somewhat excessive dps increase however my calculations were done hastily and with fleeting approximations and assumptions. Nevertheless i think its a step in the right direction. So head over, check it out and leave some constructive feedback (would be better in the thread as its easier to see and may gain the attention of the community/devs as a whole)
Also if someone wants to run more complex calculations on it i'd be very curious to see how they'd pan out.
Points for trying to post a suggestion, but uhh... I'm sorry but that's really trying to bandage up the problem the wrong way.
4 set bonus that only works <20% as well as costing so much mana you won't have at that point... I'll echo one of the first posts "What's wrong with a % buff to Seal (and Judgement) damage"?
All other classes have a % modifier to their main attack for no additional mana cost that works on bosses from 100% - 0%.
You realise instant cast spells still often reset the swing timer? Moonfire is an ample example of this, there are quite a few that dont, but its silly to assume being instant makes it so.
Points for trying to post a suggestion, but uhh... I'm sorry but that's really trying to bandage up the problem the wrong way.
4 set bonus that only works <20% as well as costing so much mana you won't have at that point... I'll echo one of the first posts "What's wrong with a % buff to Seal (and Judgement) damage"?
All other classes have a % modifier to their main attack for no additional mana cost that works on bosses from 100% - 0%.
My 2 cents.
Switch the S3 Gloves bonus with the Tier 6 4pc bonus! That's what I say.
Just a quick update since i havent updated the paldin dps model in a while. Since there werent any mechanic changes (so far) in 2.4 I decided to give some of the backgroup database and coding a re-working which is taking longer than expected. Howver it means:-
1) All the current sunwell loot is now in as well as other loot missed previously
2) The Item Analysis has has a complete overhall with lots of new filters / goodies etc
3) There is an option to gem so that you get hit capped
Hopefully get the version out in the next few days
First thing, check the data, second thing, read up on statistics and binomial distributions. If it wasn't for the data being borked that test would show 5 STDs awayfrom the value expected if haste did not effect SoC proc chance per swing, which would have proven statistical significance.
But now it didn't, cause the data is borked.
Evidently you win the internet.
Originally Posted by Avitus
Notice your own wording: not yet When you get some T6 you'll be at least as disgruntled as those of us who look at the set bonus every day thinking "what's the point".
Don't touch S3 gloves (though 10% on hammer of wrath would help against every target that's ever escaped at 1-3% after you threw HoW at him in pvp... so it would make sense), but do something to T6x 4 set or it's a joke.
You gotta remember, for most classes the 4 set T6 bonus is just godlike.
Locks get 6% on their shadowbolts, that's 6% total damage for a shadowbolt spamming imp sac build and trust me around the bend all of our locks got T6 I did notice a huge change on damage meters.
For our set bonus to not just be bad, but simply "non existent" is ridiculous when you compare.
Oh I completely agree with you here. I think the S3 gloves should retain the same bonus, and the T6 Set Bonus needs to be even better. I wouldn't agree with "switching" the two current bonus'; this would have been a nerf for the majority of us.
I would hate that switch too, considering how HoW tends to be useless in PvP "ok ok, I got him, I got him.... dammit miss!"
Switching those two would seriously hurt in pvp. I wouldn't mind getting something like feral droods.. CS now interupts for 3 seconds... But that's not likely to happen.
Quick edit about the suggestion: How doesn't need to be instant. Just make it castable while in movement, and we got ourselves a pretty decent pvp spell.
I was wondering want would be the best weapon enchant for PvE. Executioner or Mongoose.
You can try the search button or even reading this thread, since nobody is here to be your concierge d'information.
Regarding the 4P T6 bonus, the only change I've been able to think of is "increases the damage of your Seals and Judgements by 10%." I feel the 10% is in-line with other bonuses, considering Warlocks get a flat 6% DPS increase (assuming they're Demo, which almost every Warlock should be due to itemization), and Mages get 5% damage to ~90% of their damage.
I heard Sigurd scored an infinity on Rock Band and ascended to heaven.
02/22/08, 3:54 PM
