Retribution DPS Theorycraft - Page 98

bellator · 01/11/08, 5:41 AM

Originally Posted by Jacey

Just one more question for Bellator - Does the spreadsheet correctly note down the fact that haste also increases the amount of SoB procs you get, as it is every hit and the proc chance doesnt go down the faster your hitting?

Edit: Seeing as i'm quite the noob, it works now, but can someone please explain how the Item Calc works? Managed to input my items and calculate it, but im getting some weird numbers. The numbers range from 0.something to about 28, is this number the increase in dps you get from the concerning item? I'm quite worried with some of the items popping up =P (just for my information, how much +% hit does the spreadsheet assume you need?)

Haste does effect SoB in the sheet

Briefly, how item calc works. Lets say you've set up your gear and it's saying you have 1000dps. When you run Item calc, it will first look at your head gear. It goes through each helm item and works out the dps if you had each helm. It looks at Helm X and the dps drops to 990. It then looks at Helm Y and dps is 1010, so it lists Helm Y with 10 (dps increase next it it). It does that with all items. The enchants you set up will stay the same, but every socket of every item it compares is filled with +Str gems (to keep things even), as it's impossible to know exactly how you would socket it. Ideally it would socket each item based on the gemming combination which gives the highest dps, but the calculation time would be tooo big

The hit cap is 9% hit

Originally Posted by Aelwynsc

Definitely will work on that issue and try to get it tighter for sure. Gut feeling is that once I tighten up this, the gearing is gonna be my challenge but then can't get help with that until WoWarmory is working properly. Of course have to get with Bellator as well since his sheet doesn't have some of my gear in it like my Myrmidion's headdress......

The spreadsheet's item database is aimed to have all Karazhan + epics in. It also has a selection of what I believe to be the best pre-raid blues. I'm sorry, it's nothing personal but i will not be adding Myrmidion's headset in as it could open the floodgate and I would end up spending half my time adding countless blues to fit everyone's needs.

However, this is why i am working on the insert item function to accomodate people's needs.

bellator · 01/11/08, 5:47 AM

Originally Posted by sag_ich_nicht

Hmm... Okay, after further reading up I learned it is in 2 second pulses. Well, in that case I need to punch the author of X-Perl to make his 5SR ticker more like an energy ticker. And yes I agree, it might be worth a shot to try come up with a mana reg cycle using that, but the question is if it is worth the effort or would even net any gain.

I Need input on the mechanics of the 5SR. I know:-
a) You need to not use a mana spell for 5 seconds
b) it ticks every 2 seconds

What I need to know, if you cast crusader strike every 6 seconds do you:-
1) Get 1 tick 5 seconds after casting crusader strike
2) Get 0 ticks as you need 7 seconds (5+2) for the first tick to occur

If the answer is 2) then I will not program 5SR into the spreadsheet as the model assumes using CS on CD and i see no benefit in extending the CD of one of the most damagin abilites to save mana for other things. If you dont have the regen for casting CS every 6 seconds you have a problem

If the answer is 2, then i will program it so:-

A) If you have Judgement/Exorcism/Consecration turned off.
.....You will get 1 tick every 6 seconds

b) If you have Judgement turned on, but exo/cons off
.....You will get 1 tick every 18 seconds (based on the 9sec judgement CS on CD SoC 100% uptime which in my view is the best rotation and the one used in the sheet)

c) If you have either Exorcism or consecration turned on
....You dont get any ticks (in reality you might get the occassional tick, but there's so many potential ways of using these abilites it would get too confusing)

grayrest · 01/11/08, 6:39 AM

Originally Posted by bellator

I Need input on the mechanics of the 5SR. I know:-
a) You need to not use a mana spell for 5 seconds
b) it ticks every 2 seconds

What I need to know, if you cast crusader strike every 6 seconds do you:-
1) Get 1 tick 5 seconds after casting crusader strike
2) Get 0 ticks as you need 7 seconds (5+2) for the first tick to occur

Neither. The 5sr begins every time you expend mana (this only really impacts mage clearcasting and channeled spells). Mana ticks, like energy ticks, occur at a fixed interval. If you're in the 5sr when the tick occurs, you get no mana. If you're outside the 5sr, you get mana. If you CS every 6 seconds exactly (no latency) and your CS doesn't coincide exactly with a tick, you will get 1 tick every 5th CS.

In all honesty, the return is such a tiny amount (~20 mana every 30 seconds) that I don't think it'd be worth modeling.

Jakome · 01/11/08, 10:08 AM

Hi guys, my buddy got a bug up his ass and decided to go ret and we are currently on a mission to get him into the raid. I've tried to read the thread but I started struggling at pg 20. I glanced over the last few and didn't see anything on what I need.

The new thing they have for us now is some guild on are server "tested" and said that imp seal of crusader only works with party members and not for the whole raid. I have a hard time believing that because all other Judgments give the effect to the raid. Does it give the whole raid the buff and if it does is there a way to prove it to them?

Sorry · 01/11/08, 10:47 AM

Hard to imagine since Judgements work for everybody, even for the opposite faction.

bellator · 01/11/08, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by Jakome

Hi guys, my buddy got a bug up his ass and decided to go ret and we are currently on a mission to get him into the raid. I've tried to read the thread but I started struggling at pg 20. I glanced over the last few and didn't see anything on what I need.

The new thing they have for us now is some guild on are server "tested" and said that imp seal of crusader only works with party members and not for the whole raid. I have a hard time believing that because all other Judgments give the effect to the raid. Does it give the whole raid the buff and if it does is there a way to prove it to them?

Yes improved seal of the crusader works for the whole raid. They are probably thinking of Sanctity Aura. It's hard to prove the crit increase for the raid, but for the spell damage:-

Make a raid with another paladin, but be in different groups. Find a mob. Get him to spam consecrations and watch the tick damage. After 10 seconds judge SoTC and he will see the tick damage increase even though he is in a different group.

If SotC is working for the holy damage then there is no reason it shouldnt for the crit.

Iod · 01/11/08, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by bellator

It's hard to prove the crit increase for the raid, but for the spell damage:-

Perusing my WWS logs, I have supporting evidence at least for it working for the whole Raid. My base Crit is 26%, with a Feral Druid that jumps to 31%. Over the course of an evening (and over 1000 shots fired) my average Crit rate is 33%. The only other thing present to affect crit? That's right, our Retribution Paladin.

Jakome, to be perfectly honest the people saying that have their heads up their asses. A good Ret Pally is quite valuable.

ulath7 · 01/11/08, 12:22 PM

I'm sure this has been documented somewhere, but at what point does one want to use Seal of Blood, Seal of Command or Seal of Righteousness to do the most "white" DPS?

I've only started building a Ret set and last I calculated, can only get to around 1400 AP. I have Hammer of the Naru as a weapon.

Thanks in advance.

Adurith · 01/11/08, 4:58 PM

I have a question that I'd really like to get an answer to:

My guild currently has BT on farm but I'm looking to optimize my damage on each boss (we run every 25 man each week). With that said, I have an Armor Penetration set that I use on bosses like Teron and then a normal Strength set for bosses like VR and Council. My question is this: Is there a list of bosses and the amount of armor they have somewhere? I've looked on Wikipedia and I've searched for it here on the elitistjerks forums but I can't find any answers.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Theras · 01/11/08, 5:16 PM

Originally Posted by Adurith

My question is this: Is there a list of bosses and the amount of armor they have somewhere? I've looked on Wikipedia and I've searched for it here on the elitistjerks forums but I can't find any answers.

http://elitistjerks.com/496799-post8.html

Avitus · 01/11/08, 5:46 PM

Originally Posted by Saltycracker

Is anyone having problems with castsequence post patch? Right now my macro looks like:

/startattack
/castsequence reset=10 Judgement, Seal of Command(rank 5)

It sometimes gets hung up and I have to judge manually, whereafter if acts like normal. I know they changed the way the castsequence works in the patch but I cannot figgure out what they did.

Has anyone found a solution to this?

I have the same problem and it's incredibly frustrating when it bugs up at a critical moment to say the least.

Currently my own castsequence macro looks like this:

/startattack
/castsequence reset=30/alt Seal of Command, Judgement

I've tried without the initial /startattack, I've tried by adding an exclamation mark infront of Judgement (though supposedly that's only for toggle able abilities?), but it still bugs up for no apparent reason every now and then.

I know as a last solution I could switch to a multi line /cast macro, but I've always preferred /castsequence since it restricts you from resealing accidentally when you already have a seal up.

Any help would be very much appreciated.

EDIT: Found a 9 page blue flagged threat at the official wow UI/macro forum:

WoW Forums -> /castsequence not cycling properly?

Seems like it's a known issue, I really hope it doesn't take until 2.4 to fix.

• Zurm · 01/11/08, 7:04 PM

While we are on the topic of macros...

I saw some people used /startattack in their macros. Does this turn auto-attack on if its not, but leave it on if it is? If this is the case, this is the command i've been searching for regarding a cs macro. I loose too much dps when switching targets to having to wait for cs or judge to come off CD for autoattack to turn back on.

Avitus · 01/11/08, 7:45 PM

Originally Posted by Zurm

I saw some people used /startattack in their macros. Does this turn auto-attack on if its not, but leave it on if it is?

Yes.

CaptBooyah · 01/12/08, 7:04 AM

Originally Posted by ulath7

I'm sure this has been documented somewhere, but at what point does one want to use Seal of Blood, Seal of Command or Seal of Righteousness to do the most "white" DPS?

I've only started building a Ret set and last I calculated, can only get to around 1400 AP. I have Hammer of the Naru as a weapon.

Thanks in advance.

You'll -never- use SoR and as a Belf.. you'll only use SoC when the possibility of the SoB/JoB recoil will kill you is very high... and this is only on a very small amount of fights.. ie Prince of Kara.

Ive only just gotten to 2k in my gear unbuffed. It takes alot of gathering the right pieces, so unless you're doing a good job in 25mans or the arenas.. don't expect high stat numbers (altho the badge gear helps a great deal)

Mordekhuul · 01/12/08, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by CaptBooyah

You'll -never- use SoR and as a Belf.. you'll only use SoC when the possibility of the SoB/JoB recoil will kill you is very high... and this is only on a very small amount of fights.. ie Prince of Kara.

Ive only just gotten to 2k in my gear unbuffed. It takes alot of gathering the right pieces, so unless you're doing a good job in 25mans or the arenas.. don't expect high stat numbers (altho the badge gear helps a great deal)

Does it? The badge gear didn't look terribly impressive to me as someone with a mix of Karazhan/pvp epics and heroic blues. A lot of points spent on ArP and +hit. I'm pretty sure if I pick up the three badge epics that would replace blues for me (already have the horseman's helm and the battleground bracers) I would be over the hit cap with Precision thrown in.

I'll have to read up on the value of ArP when present in small doses like those three pieces would give me.