Bringing up the macro discussion a few pages back.
I have done some testing with both :
/castsequence reset=10/target/combat Judgement, Seal of Command(Rank 6), Crusader Strike, Crusader Strike, Judgement, Seal of Command(Rank 6), Crusader Strike
and
/cast Judgement
/cast Seal of Command(Rank 6)
At a glance, the second one requires you to be more aware as you're using Crusader Strike ''manually'', and, in addition to that there's the already mentioned ''no seal'' problem when you judge too early by accident. Which might happen a few times during long fights.
The first ''automatic'' macro was mainly the reason I decided to post this. It seemed to be working fine during first few tests. Then I noticed that when it comes to judging and resealing, it's sometimes impossible to double-tap the macro to reseal before the next hit lands. Which wasn't an issue with the second macro, as it uses both spells instantly together, not sequentially (does it make it completely independent from swing timer?)
So with the castsequence macro you have to watch the swing timer pretty closely, because if you're nearing the next swing you might not have enough time to reapply the seal quickly enough, resulting in a potential proc loss.
I was wondering, if there's a way to somehow embed the simple judge-and-reseal macro into the longer sequence to avoid this ? Alternative methods/ideas are welcome.
Here are a few macros I have been playing with. First I start with this
/startattack
/cast Seal of the Crusader
next I use this macro to judge and reseal
/startattack
/castsequence reset=10/target/combat Crusader Strike, Judgement, Seal of Blood, Crusader Strike, Crusader Strike, Judgement, Seal of Blood
Now this seems to work well when we are fighting trash and switching targets and since I am not switching targets on teh boss, it keeps going through the sequence without a problem. I still need to do some more testing.
Yes, I took into account your reitemisation in 2.4. Do you see other classes getting thier sets reviewed? Don't kick a gift horse in the mouth.
Please don't enter a thread assuming you know everything about Paladins mechanics and itemization. If it weren't for the 2pT6 bonus, we'd be wearing as much lower-class armor as you do. The 5 main pieces of T6 still aren't optimal, they're just less horrible than they used to be. I doubt you see any Paladins in full T6 come 2.4.
I heard Sigurd scored an infinity on Rock Band and ascended to heaven.
Even after 2.4, only the T6 chest(among the 5 BT/Hyjal pieces) is best-in-slot for Blood Elves. The rest of the items are disappointing. So yeah, our case when it comes to T6 isn't so much better than enh shamans
Please don't enter a thread assuming you know everything about Paladins mechanics and itemization. If it weren't for the 2pT6 bonus, we'd be wearing as much lower-class armor as you do. The 5 main pieces of T6 still aren't optimal, they're just less horrible than they used to be. I doubt you see any Paladins in full T6 come 2.4.
No assumption of paladin mechanics were made, or even needed in this instance. The last few pages were commenting on how poor the retribution set bonuses are, but you cannot justify how bad they are by comparing to other sets because each class is balanced differently - just cause 1 class requires a 5, 6 or 10% damage boost doesn't mean they all do or we'd all be running around 1 shotting people by that logic. Especially when theres worse sets than the retribrution one.
Oh and I doubt you'll see many people wearing full T6 in 2.4, sunwell gear is kinda better
Oh and I doubt you'll see many people wearing full T6 in 2.4, sunwell gear is kinda better
The new T6 belt, boots and bracers are from Sunwell, and all count towards the T6 set bonus.
Many of these items are best in slot, so although you may not see many players with full T6 equipped, you will see a hell of a lot with the 4-piece bonus.
Considering you got a set that tailored to your needs, and aren't forced to wear leather... I'd say you are hardly doing bad.
Technically speaking, much of leather gear you are wearing is best in slot for us as well. In fact, the best shoulders in the game at the moment are leather shoulders off Hydross, and you are wearing the best helm and chest.
Many of us CHOOSE to not wear leather because of the various hybrid roles we play in raids; some may offtank hyjal trash, others may not have those pieces drop often enough and choose to pass them to "primary" dpsers; and still others simply prefer wearing plate so that when a boss or trash mob cleaves/whirlwinds, we have a chance to stay alive. Pick your poison... you do not have to wear that gear either.
That being said, I have to say I'm fairly dissapointed in you, Mox. The purpose is not to win a QQ war to get items changed, but rather to fix what has been wrong with our class in PvE. Shaman already got that fix, as you might recall. They gave you a talent that coverts AP to spell damage to cover your hybrid stats... we still have nothing of the sort. In other words, your class has finished its overhaul, ours is still in progress. Rather than try to shut us up, allow us to voice the overarching problems of our class before it falls upon deaf ears at Blizzard.
Formally Xyrm/Zurm, the Ret Pally. Now playing my rogue, Zyrm, more casually with RL friends.
Yes, I took into account your reitemisation in 2.4. Do you see other classes getting thier sets reviewed? Don't kick a gift horse in the mouth.
Even after the reitemization we only will wear 2 pieces of BT/Hyjal T6 for the bonus, or after we move into SWP we will only wear those three pieces. Just like your class, the random epics lying around BT are much better for our DPS than the craptastic tier sets.
Originally Posted by Mox
No assumption of paladin mechanics were made, or even needed in this instance. The last few pages were commenting on how poor the retribution set bonuses are, but you cannot justify how bad they are by comparing to other sets because each class is balanced differently - just cause 1 class requires a 5, 6 or 10% damage boost doesn't mean they all do or we'd all be running around 1 shotting people by that logic. Especially when theres worse sets than the retribrution one.
Just stop. No tier gear is ideal for any class or spec (the only reason you wear it is for bonuses, dur). It just so happens that ret paladin tier gear is so terrible that we require a full reitemization. This is the retribution paladin thread, not the enhancement shaman thread, so I really couldn't give less of a shit about your tier problems. WoW Forums ------> that way.
The point remains, your bonuses apply to an ability that you use. Whether you choose to wear them or not is based on the item quality, not the bonus. Our 4-piece bonus (like a resto druid) applies to an ability that we can not use. I'll say it one more time, we can not use Hammer of Wrath in a raid without losing DPS. So we're stuck looking at very sub-par gear with an absolutely worthless bonus. Apples and Oranges.
Let me know if there any bugs etc, and if you spot any errors in items etc.
Notes & Changes
Bugs:-
Shadowmoon destroyer cloak is currently set to filter under Tempest Keep loot, not Black Temple. Will be fixed in next version. You can manually change this by unhiding Sheet "DPS" and changing cell E420 to "Black Temple".
User Added Items:-
This currently does not work so has been hidden. Will be working in a later version.
Database Changes:-
The database has had a massive overhaul to allow for extra filtering. It also contains a load of new items, with about 30% more than the last version(now currently showing 475 items, up from 369. Here is a summary of what it now contains:-
Plate - All Epic plate, all Rare plate of ilvl 115, PVP gear, and craftable gear
Mail & Leather - all Epic mail exluding PVP gear. On a craftable side contains the mail chest equivalent to the plate one, and all craftables from raiding instances (ilvl 128+). Does not have the set craftables around the 115 level.
Rings, necks etc - All Epic rings and all Rare plate of ilvl 115, PVP gear and craftable gear
The selection of enchants/gems is the same (may be updated in later version)
Character Sheet:-
Not much has changed (apart from some bugs removed). There is a new gem socketing method called "Hit Cap Gems". This now ensures that after gemming you are hit capped. It tries it's best to socket git gems in the right colour sockert, then str in the rest. It is much better than the "Socket Str" gem, though it does not always socket perfectly to ensure the maximum about of socket bonuses are attained. To do this would require a much more complex code which would slow down the item analysis calculation sheet an awful lot which is not worth it as any loss of dps from this code is minimal at most.
Item Analysis Sheet:-
This sheet has has a complete re-working:-
When the "Analyse Items" button is clicked, for each slot, it produces a nice table showing the item you have (highlighted) and all items you are comparing it to in terms of the dps change. Items both better and worse than yours are shown ordered worst to best. In addition it shows the armour type (plate/mail/leather), their rareity (Epic/Rare), the Item level, and the location of the item.
(Just click the damn button to get a better understanding :p)
On the right is the "Options Panel", including:-
1) "Only Show Upgrades" -You can toggle this option show that it shows either items both better and worst or just better items
2) "Only Show Name and Dps Difference" - this stops the analyis showing all the additional information of upgrades
3) "Show Loot of Rareity" - Toggles Epic/Rare loot on/off
4) "Show Loot of Armour Type" - Toggles Leather/Mail/Plate/Nonarmour(rings etc) on off
5) "Show Loot From" - Toggles the locations of different loot on off
The KEY thing to note, is that since the item database is so large and with the addedd functionality, the more options you have toggled on the longer the analysis will take.
The new upgrade analysis is great! The one bug I noticed is that it still shows Black Temple and Sunwell loot for cloaks even if you marked them with a 'no' under the filter.
Bellator for President! Thanks man, much appreciated.
Thanks, and no problem
Originally Posted by weco
The new upgrade analysis is great! The one bug I noticed is that it still shows Black Temple and Sunwell loot for cloaks even if you marked them with a 'no' under the filter.
Thanks, glad you like it.
Just noticed that "ShadowMoon destroyer Cloak" has it's filter set as "Tempest Keep" not "Black Temple" which is what caused this problem. Will be Fixed in the next version. You can manually change this by unhiding Sheet "DPS" and changing cell E420 to "Black Temple".
So, im in the process of lvling a retri pala. im going to outlands in the not too far future and was wondering wether to gun for the pala quest rewards or the more warr itemized ones? i know most "pala" rewards will be reitemized, but even then, i see most of the spelldamage converted to straight str and lots of int/mp5. i like the looks of str/agi/sta more tbh, but wanted to check with you guys first
The first thing I noticed using the new version of the spreadsheet is how much better the leather ArPen gear is compared to the plate Haste gear when using SoC. Switching to SoB, all those plate items show up ahead of the leather. Trying to compete with Rogues for gear will suck.
[edit] For some reason, Shivering Felspine is beating Apolyon for Seal of Blood.
I heard Sigurd scored an infinity on Rock Band and ascended to heaven.
pala quest rewards or the more warr itemized ones?
Mostly Warrior gear, but finding plate/mail with mp5 and some spell damage is a good thing for one or two pieces. The quest rewards look unchanged for now, but some dungeon drops and a few 70 quest rewards have a lot spell damage and it has turned into strength.
Note the patch is over a month away, and just changing spell damage into more strength doesn't help the items much (no agility on them).
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
For some reason, Shivering Felspine is beating Apolyon for Seal of Blood.
This surprises me. What gear sec up were you using for this analysis, as using tier6/7 gear i've been unable to get the Felspine to output Apolyon for either SoC/SoB.
Originally Posted by Abbichum
Hi
So, im in the process of lvling a retri pala. im going to outlands in the not too far future and was wondering wether to gun for the pala quest rewards or the more warr itemized ones? i know most "pala" rewards will be reitemized, but even then, i see most of the spelldamage converted to straight str and lots of int/mp5. i like the looks of str/agi/sta more tbh, but wanted to check with you guys first
Personally i'd go for warrior gear, but in levelling terms i wouldnt worry too much. Any gear you get will we replace when you hit 70, and the effect on levelling time whichever way you go will be minimal.
....ps, good choice of server...twilights hammer ftw
Long time reader, first time poster.
First off, Bellator, Thanks for all the work on the ss.
I just grabbed the latest one (v33) and I am having some odd behavior on the item analysis. With the old ss, my current gear was either best or second best in slot accross the board for t5. With the new analysis, many items from heroics, kara, and such are showing up as upgrades for me. For example, the original [Gladiator's Scaled Legguards] are showing as an upgrade to my [Greaves of the Bloodwarder], the Glad and Merc Glad helm are both showing as upgrades to my Veng helm. Even the [Vengeful Gladiator's Scaled Gauntlets] are coming up as a 3.3 dps downgrade from [Gauntlets of Martial Perfection]. Any ideas? Thanks
Same, rather weird behaviour, lots of items that were before downgrades are now considered better.
Also, Bellator, the current food is considered as both 20 str and 40 ap, can't confirm it but I think both are calced towards total dps. Adding +20 hit food would be nice too.
This may sound like a completely dumb thing, but are you certain that you are actually seeing downgraded items as upgrades. The analysis tool now shows items which are better and worse than your current gear. The items that are worse are shown as "-x dps". Are you sure you havent just seen the downgraded item in the list and thought it was showing an upgrade.
I know that may sound really dumb, but Gerine, for the examples you are givning me I have been unable to replicate the output analysis showing these things with different gear sets.
Apart from the new gemming system (using the ensure hit capped then str gems method) there are no fundamental changes to the calculations. The gemming system might cause a few rank changes when it comes to items with lots of +hit etc, but there is no reason why for example Gladiator's Scaled Legguards are showing as better than Greaves of the Bloodwarder as there is no way the 21 Int can ever provide more dps than 3 gem sockets 9 crit and 1 str. It's just impossible.
Kris, with regards the food, whilst on the sheet it lists food as 20str and 40 AP, it's not doubling up as the 20 str listed. The strength isnt being converted to AP again later on. I will however get the +20hit food added.
Edit:-
As a quick follow on, the screenshow below shows how items are now being analysed. It shows an example of the Felsteel Warhelm being compared to other items in the game. The Felsteel Warhelm (the one equipped) is highlighted in yellow. All items above that are worse than that item (the dps diff being negative). All items below better (the dps diff being positive).
Again apologies is this is completely obvious and unnecessary, but this strange behaviour you mentioned has me baffled.
Its nice seeing so many new upgrades again, its like a shopping list.
I really wish that felspine was the best upgrade, I love pole arm animations on my belf, but I got a feeling the hunters wouldn't be too happy with me after that if I was also getting an Apolyon later.
Still noticing a bug when I analyze, all my gems get replaced with 10str and I have to reload my gear set every time.
02/24/08, 8:18 AM
