Kaincael

I'm rather sure that if they changed all hots to have a possibility to crit, it'd be such a change that would warrant earlier mention.

This is purely guessing, however, based on what they've shown and by what they've done in the past, regarding wording in tooltips. It remains, however, pure guesswork, and I didn't take into account 'pulsing' earlier, and heavy arguing about what it's going to be would be pointless and frustrating.

Regardless, I can't imagine that they'd change the functionality of hots to suddenly crit without at least letting people know months and months ago. :P

As for Sheathe, don't forget Unleashed Rage, which is going to be a raidwide buff (I believe). So something like 118-119 spellpower.

Is Battle Shout still restricted by party?

 

• frmorrison

Unleashed Rage is 10% more attack power, so at 80 as a healer you would have something like 600 ap, so not much increase.

The new Battle shout is supposed to be raid-wide, and it adds 550 attack power


Note both abilities have a limited range so you will not always get them in the back.

 

Jessie

However, you will not always have to heal from the back. Sure, there will always be some fights where you'll need to be at range, but even then, the warrior can just call out before he shouts, and you can run into range. Since healing on the move won't be so bad, the number of occasions where you won't be able to get it should be relatively low.

When we look at you we don't even see the testicles on your chin. We see the testicles in your heart.

 

Kaincael

I'm not expecting to have massive amounts of AP as a healer, no.

However, these incidental buffs just seem to stack up.

At 70, we have like, what, 130 baseline strength? I have no clue what it'll be at 80, so we'll keep it there. Add in Strength of Earth (86 strength) and Mark of the Wild (37 strength, so 49.95 with 5/5 improved Mark. We'll just cheat and say 50.)

That's 266 strength just from baseline and raid buffs. 292.6 (293, can't remember if it rounds up or if it just chops it off) strength with Kings. 586 AP from strength.

Now we add in Battle Shout, which brings it up to 1136 AP. Unleashed Rage makes this... 1249.6 -- 1250 AP.

Okay, this is starting to get a little silly. :/

Anyway, 1250 AP = 375 Spellpower. A good chunk of that just from being in melee range for Sheathbots.

Edit: I remembered talents for the druid, but not for the Warrior and Shaman.

687.5 AP from Battle Shout with 5/5 Commanding Presence (I'd appreciate it if someone could tell me whether to round up or down here, otherwise I'll just assume normal rounding conventions), and Strength of Earth would be... 98.9... 99 strength. That means... 130 + 99 + 50 = 279 Strength, 306.9 (307) strength with Kings. 614 AP.

614 AP + 688 AP = 1302 AP, with Unleashed Rage is 1432.2 (1432) AP.

1432 AP = 429.66 Spellpower. Or 430 if you want to round.

Edit Edit: More things.

About Divine Strength - I still think it's worthless even if you're stacking all of these nifty raid buffs.

With the 307 strength pulled from above, 5 points in Divine Strength would give you 353 strength, or a 46 strength increase. This turns to 92 AP, and 101.2 AP with Unleashed Rage. That turns into 30.36 Spellpower.

At 1000 Spellpower, that's a 3.6% spellpower increase for 5 points. Not terribly bad, depending on coefficients and how much that'll actually increase your HPS.

At 2000 Spellpower, that's a 1.8% spellpower increase for 5 points. Not looking so good.

It all really depends on how effective Spellpower is... but I have a gut feeling that having 4% spellhaste probably will be better.

Now, with that said... it seems that roughly, adding in 5 points of Divine Strength will give Spellpower equal to 10% of your pre-Divine Strength total. I'd actually try and think about why that is, but I'm worn out after trying to troubleshoot a computer for 7 hours.

 

flyingtoastr

It depends how the ability works. Does it act just like an AoE HoT buff on everyone in a radius (in which case it won't crit) or does it work like a "pulsing" AoE such as Seed of Corruption (in which case each individual heal has a chance to crit). Illumination would be incredibly complex for the spell if the second case is true.

Divine Favor still costs mana.

 

Kaincael

All we can do now is wait and see.

 

Teziir

I remember reading a "leaked" 51 point holy talent several weeks ago that was described as "Basically a consecrate spell that instead of dealing damage, heals anyone in it."

From speculating on that mechanism, I expect it will most likely be an instant cast, stationary spell that lasts for 15 seconds, and has a 15 second cooldown, and heal for (2000 pts/15 sec) 133 points per second to everyone inside the spell effect. No HoT effects ever critically heal, so I highly doubt this will.

And it would really make a lot of sense, and would follow what Blizzard developers have said all along about a new paladin healing spell: They do not want to give them any old heal spell that is a renamed priest or druid spell. They want to give paladins a healing spell that is truly unique to them.

 

Kinmaul

Did they remove the Precision talent from the prot tree or did the people who did the talent tree's over at MMO champion just leave it out? I've been looking all over and cannot find anything that says one way or the other yet.

 

flyingtoastr

You're right, HoT's don't heal. But again it doesn't have to be coded as a HoT. To take the old example again, it could be coded as a Seed of Corruption style "pulse" heal.

Or here's a better example. Pretend it acts just like multiple Circles of Healing. Every 3 seconds the person you cast BoL on sends out a CoH to everyone within 10 yards. Just like with CoH it is entirely possible that every heal it sends out can crit.

I don't know if that is how it would work and it would make Illumination an absolute nightmare, but there is nothing to say it can't work this way.

Oh and it has a 1.5 second cast time.

Divine Favor still costs mana.

 

Teziir

Agreed. I just doubt it will, as I am nearly certain they are conceptually going for a Consecrate spell that heals.

Heck, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if they even used the same spell graphics as Consecrate, with maybe a different color. We all know how lazy some of the graphics designers can be.

 

Kaincael

Animations? Maybe.

Modeling? Naaaaah. Have you even seen some of the dungeon drops? They look amazing, and amazingly detailed.

 

flyingtoastr

After watching a video of a guildie messing around on the beta server in Stormwind harbor (I'm so jealous of him, but he's feeding me all sorts of fun info) I can say the graphics folks have really outdone themselves. All the models are crisp and look amazing, if it translates over into the new abilities (I hope so, BoL should make the target turn gold IMO ) I think it will be great.

Divine Favor still costs mana.

 

◊ Cathela

Updated, expanded, and prettified the original post a bit. Feel free to alert me to any errors. I'll try to keep this up to date.

My comrades are my weapons, and I am their shield.

 

Kaincael

As far as I've heard, casting the Judgement will *not* eat up your current Seal.

WoW Forums -> The reworking of judgement system

Also, it may be worth to note that Seal of Wisdom, Light, and Justice are still around.

Edit: I think this post words it in a way that's easier to understand.
WoW Forums -> Bug or Buff -- Judgement of <Spell>

It would be nice to see what it was increased from. I know I can't recall off the top of my head what the duration was at. Actually, if you ever feel energetic enough, going through the entire changelog (as it applies to Paladins) and listing what the changes changed from would be very nice and handy.

Probably should make a note here that Hand of Salvation currently has a 2 minute cooldown.
Hand of Salvation - Spell - World of Warcraft

Adding a tagline may be a good idea, something that says "(It appears that by folding blessing of light "into all relevant abilities", all spells had their base healing done increased by around 200 or so.)"

or even just having a small FAQ section going "Hey, what does it mean by "folding blessing of light" and "folding seal of the crusader"?" In order to waylay the questions.

 

Akston

Pretty sure SoV is currently 15s

 

Xterminate

Illumination tooltip does not state that you would gain mana from BoL crits. Even if it can crit, Illumination would have nothing to do with it at this point.

 

SirM

In my opinion overall our holy talents look good, but I would be really happy if blizzard changes/adds two things:

1. Make Blessing of Kings a trainable skill, so you can save putting 11 points into the protection tree.
2. Introduce a talent similar to unrelenting storm but with 15% of the Intellect as mp5 for 3 talentpoints. I would put it somewhere into the holytree or maybe in the first tier of the protection tree. Let assume you have something like 700 Intellect raidbuffed. That would be 105 mp5, a little less then the new skilled blessing of wisdom, not overpowered I would say but really helpful.

If these changes would go through I would propose the following talent build:

http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?...00000000000000

3 points are left out intentionally. They would go into the mp5 talent.

 

Fearlezz

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Saw Sheath of Light and since warriors should be getting more str on their gear and we do share some/most of it with them, looked to me like a good "threat" build for 5mans or nothing very serious.

Question is: Is the additional spell damage and imp retri aura gonna outwheigh the 51 point talent in prot for 3+ target tanking or do we actually lose much more by skipping the 51 pointer?

 

Kaincael

That would depend entirely on itemization, and we're nowhere close to seeing what's available/usable for 80. Personally, I'm confused about what Paladins and Warriors are supposed to pick up for tanking, as I've only seen Spellpower and dps plate on the drops revealed so far. However, I doubt this means that people are going to be tanking in dps gear. I doubt this very much.

It depends on what kind of stuff's available at 80, and whether coefficients have remained the same.

 

GSH

I'm not sure Cathela's summary of the new Judgments (I will call them J*) matches the reports. Here are a list of questions. Maybe someone in the beta could give specific answers.

1. Does J* require an active Seal?

2. Does J* consume the active Seal?

3. Does J* refresh the active Seal?

4. Does J* invoke the Global Cooldown?

5. Does JoL apply the Light debuff?

6. Does JoW apply the Wisdom debuff?

7. Does JoJ apply the Justice debuff?

8. Does JoL heal the paladin when cast?

9. Does JoW return mana to the paladin when cast?

10. Does JoJ stun the target when cast?

11. Do the effects of J* scale in any way?

12. Does the original Judgement spell still exist?

13. Does casting Beacon of Light on a feral druid result in a giant, glowing bear? (not related, but vitally important)

 

Shuror

According to wowhead it's a standard periodic heal, IE a HoT. Beacon of Light - Spell - World of Warcraft

 

flyingtoastr

At the moment the spell has no graphic whatsoever and just gives a buff. I'm sure that will be patched in soon enough.

Divine Favor still costs mana.

 

◊ Cathela

Of course! If it's worth doing, it's worth spending way too much time on.

Thanks for the comments (that goes for GSH and everyone else as well); I'll work them in ASAP.

EDIT:

OP revised to include many of Kaincael's suggestions as well as some extra formatting. Hopefully answers some of GSH's questions as well.

My comrades are my weapons, and I am their shield.

 

Sterlin

The question I have - and hopefully some Beta person can anwer is - does the Heart of the Crusader Stack with all three Judgements up (if they have the talent)

So, Wise, Justice, and Light result in a 9% Crit

Thank you

 

Kigale

This along with the raid-wide auras would require each raid to bring exactly 3 paladins. I'd think after seeing shaman stacking in Sunwell Blizzard would try to avoid repeating that. But, you never know.