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Old 07/18/08, 3:19 PM   #151
Melnor
Piston Honda
 
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Blood Elf Paladin
 
Blackhand
Not really seeing anythign that's going to change the meta game for pallies in 2s and 3s.. AKA what's going to stop me from getting mana drained to nothing in 30 seconds?

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Old 07/18/08, 3:22 PM   #152
flyingtoastr
Bald Bull
 
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Human Paladin
 
Draka
Originally Posted by Melnor View Post
Not really seeing anythign that's going to change the meta game for pallies in 2s and 3s.. AKA what's going to stop me from getting mana drained to nothing in 30 seconds?
Yeah, except for the instant heals, reactive heals and HoT's that allow us to continually pillar hump to avoid them...

What did you want, some talent that says "lulz you can't be burned"?

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Old 07/18/08, 3:32 PM   #153
Corronach
Piston Honda
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Cenarius
Originally Posted by flyingtoastr View Post
Yeah, except for the instant heals, reactive heals and HoT's that allow us to continually pillar hump to avoid them...

What did you want, some talent that says "lulz you can't be burned"?
That would involve them admitting pillar humping isn't exactly cool, or fun. We are very bad against hunters and priests in 2's and 3's, and that's because our mana regen is going to be balanced around us having Blessing of Wisdom which those two classes can dispel instantly. So perhaps rather then something that prevents drains more then resilience, they could protect Blessing of Wisdom like Mage and Lock Armor? Or perhaps give paladin's more incentive to actual wear their PVP sets?

But yeah, after seeing the talents, new skills, and other changes overall I'm pretty excited now. The only thing I see that they haven't addressed is 2's and 3's Arena in a large enough way. i.e. Getting chain cc'd, and mana drains. I feel that the chain cc portion is us paying for having divine shield, but mana efficiency is something they might address by better itemization on Holy Paladin arena gear.

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Old 07/18/08, 3:33 PM   #154
Charsi
Don Flamenco
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by flyingtoastr View Post
Woah, if SoV becomes a guarenteed proc it would make it a powerful ret seal as well to twist in. Start the fight with a fast 1 hander to get up 5 stacks rapidly, swap to your 2h with normal SoB and refresh it every 15-17 seconds to keep the stacks rolling. That would be a pretty nice DPS increase.
A thought: Holy Paladins have a deep tree spec to increase the range of their judgements and grant haste upon successful judgement. It stands to reason that to keep the haste buff rolling the Paladin will want to judge every 30 sec. The question is, what to judge? Initially Wisdom/Light as needed, but once the Ret Paladin is in there with Crusader Strike you don't need to rejudge those, so a damaging seal makes sense (possibly a rank 1 of something, or nothing at all to conserve mana at the expense of haste).

If SoV is made a reliable proc, then it may be plausible that a Ret Paladin could twist a 5 stack SoV alongside SoB (or the Alliance counterpart, Martyr). This would see a 5 stack Holy Vengeance up on the mob at all times for the Holy Paladins (who are all rocking spellpower and spellcrit) to all judge against. Hmm.

It's far more likely that the intent of those talents is PvP oriented, eg. now your 5's healer can tag somebody with a judgement *and* haste themselves as a helpful side effect.

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Old 07/18/08, 3:40 PM   #155
Pyralissa
Von Kaiser
 
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Human Warlock
 
Llane
Both WoWhead and MMOchampion are not showing Precision in the Protection tree. Now the irony is I would like to be able to splash into the Holy tree, but need to "waste" 5 point into Protection for Divine Strength!

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Old 07/18/08, 3:51 PM   #156
Pleochism
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Zenedar (EU)
*edit* Bleh.

Last edited by Pleochism : 07/18/08 at 3:57 PM.

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Old 07/18/08, 3:53 PM   #157
flyingtoastr
Bald Bull
 
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Human Paladin
 
Draka
Originally Posted by Corronach View Post
That would involve them admitting pillar humping isn't exactly cool, or fun. We are very bad against hunters and priests in 2's and 3's, and that's because our mana regen is going to be balanced around us having Blessing of Wisdom which those two classes can dispel instantly. So perhaps rather then something that prevents drains more then resilience, they could protect Blessing of Wisdom like Mage and Lock Armor? Or perhaps give paladin's more incentive to actual wear their PVP sets?
They could always tack something interesting onto Improved Blessing of Wisdom that punishes people for dispelling it ("When your Blessing of Wisdom is dispelled you instantly regain 10% of your total mana") or something like that. I see no reason to give pallys some super burn resistance though, pillar humping might not be fun but it is an important skill.

Then of course I'm holding out that one of our trainable abilities will be Evocation, as all three specs in every aspect of the game could use some sort of activated heavy regen.

Did anyone else notice that Illumination is back to 100% return on crit, or was it just seen as unimportant.
It's still 60% like before according to both WoWhead and MMOC.

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Old 07/18/08, 3:53 PM   #158
Kaincael
Von Kaiser
 
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Draenei Mage
 
Cenarion Circle
Originally Posted by Charsi View Post
It's far more likely that the intent of those talents is PvP oriented, eg. now your 5's healer can tag somebody with a judgement *and* haste themselves as a helpful side effect.
It could also see very good use in 5 and 10-mans. In raid healing is where it might suffer, however.

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Old 07/18/08, 3:54 PM   #159
Kaincael
Von Kaiser
 
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Draenei Mage
 
Cenarion Circle
Originally Posted by Pleochism View Post
Did anyone else notice that Illumination is back to 100% return on crit, or was it just seen as unimportant.
It's not, you misread it.

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Old 07/18/08, 4:02 PM   #160
etrnl
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Rogue
 
Mal'Ganis
Divine Guardian looks interesting. It would be very nice to see how this could play out in a raid environment.

Would this be chain used through Paladins, like a relay or damage channeling, or would there be some sort of debuff placed that "cannot take damage from other Paladins under Divine Guardian"?

EDIT: I could see something very interesting involving 3 pallys, Beacon of Light and mitigating damage during intensive encounters via Divine Guardian.

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Old 07/18/08, 4:07 PM   #161
zenos
Von Kaiser
 
Human Paladin
 
Malfurion
Originally Posted by zenos View Post
A very interesting portion of the talent Sanctified Wrath. "...and while effected by Avenging Wrath, 50% of all damage caused bypasses damage reduction effects."

What does this entail? Is it effectively 50% armor pen? Does it effect the priest bubble? Does it effect a warlock sacrifice bubble? Depending on how its implemented it could have some serious effect in pvp.


Quoting myself here, my apologies, but I also realize that resilience is a "damage reduction effect". So popping wings would conceivably mean your target is struck as if you had 50% armor pen and 50% resilience pen. This could be very interesting.

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Old 07/18/08, 4:08 PM   #162
Strom
Von Kaiser
 
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Human Paladin
 
Emerald Dream
Originally Posted by atheira View Post
Divine Guardian looks interesting. It would be very nice to see how this could play out in a raid environment.

Would this be chain used through Paladins, like a relay or damage channeling, or would there be some sort of debuff placed that "cannot take damage from other Paladins under Divine Guardian"?

What I find interesting about Divine Guardian, is that they state the paladin will take the 30% damage from the raid. We all know that a bubbled paladin will not take any damage, so why not state that the raid will simple take 30% less damage and not even mention that the paladin is getting the damage instead?

Something is amiss there, either its worded incorrectly, or there was possible changes to Divine Shield in the works that we do not know about. Maybe they are considering turing Divine Shield into a damage reducing ability, instead of an immune bubble, thus making it viable while tanking?

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Old 07/18/08, 4:16 PM   #163
Aeverius
Run amok or sink, swim's not an option
 
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Human Paladin
 
Cenarion Circle
Originally Posted by Strom View Post
What I find interesting about Divine Guardian, is that they state the paladin will take the 30% damage from the raid. We all know that a bubbled paladin will not take any damage, so why not state that the raid will simple take 30% less damage and not even mention that the paladin is getting the damage instead?

Something is amiss there, either its worded incorrectly, or there was possible changes to Divine Shield in the works that we do not know about. Maybe they are considering turing Divine Shield into a damage reducing ability, instead of an immune bubble, thus making it viable while tanking?
While I agree that the wording is strange, the bold is a terrible terrible thing that should never come to pass. Unless, if course, I get some new kind of fear break/debuff clear/spell reflect stand-in. The bubble is an awkward tool, in its way, but you damn sure can do a lot with it. Nothing they could give me in a damage reduction ability would make up for it without being so overpowered as to be broken.

Improved Lay on Hands is really fucking good:

Originally Posted by Malleus View Post
Unless there's a reason to save it for a specific point in the fight, someone should be getting laid every single time it's up.

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Old 07/18/08, 4:19 PM   #164
jaxdahl
Great Tiger
 
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Troll Rogue
 
Mal'Ganis
There's a possibility the damage taken would go through the bubble -- there's precedent for this to occur (Four Horsemen marks is the first one that comes to mind).

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Old 07/18/08, 4:25 PM   #165
Tharia
Piston Honda
 
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Tauren Paladin
 
Mal'Ganis (EU)
Originally Posted by jaxdahl View Post
There's a possibility the damage taken would go through the bubble -- there's precedent for this to occur (Four Horsemen marks is the first one that comes to mind).
Then in every encounter with much ae, you would instagib yourself by activating bubble. doesn't seem likely.

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